I have decided to stop playing MNC. Heres why:

I am saying that this is a team game and without one or at least players that want to act as one the game can not reach it's full potential.

What games are you playing where the team with map control is not also the team with the most juice collection?
The most encounters with juiced players are when you are already on your heals on defense. Or with a juiced assasin when the rest of your team is everywhere else.

Why is it that any argument around juiced players being nothing always hinges on the right class or the perfect grapple being around? And that the juiced player apparently becomes a worse player when he juices?
All other things being equal the juiced player has an immense advantage and can do enourmous damage compared to the ones who aren't.

"Imagine a similar button in counterstrike, dota.. hell, any competition. "

This made me laugh, OH ITS THE ANNIHILATOR ATACK, damn it killed all...ehm...all...ehm...hostages? D:

To succeed at this game, you must learn map control. A dominating team controls a vast majority of the map and can effectively shut down the defending team. The team with the map control gains almost exclusive access to the Juice vendors, the annihilator, etc. They deserve it for teamwork, and as harsh as it sounds, if your team cannot work together effectively to prevent the team from taking control, then they deserve to lose.

The assassin class is the saboteur, mainly softens the defense for the main force. They are not a solo-pwn class for newbies, and has a higher learning curve than classes like the Tank, and Gunner, but that learning curve is well worth the trouble for highly skilled Sin players.

Thats a fair statement. But let me turn it around a bit.

If you played with such a team , would you then say that the game mechanics I have issues with makes it a better game - and why, compared to to the contrary?

Because I cannot see it.

I can see secondary objectives add to the game. I would perhaps argue they already exist for positional reasons, but I can see some sense in having additional objectives that gives you an advantage for holding them. But not ones that bestow "I just clicked a button and took away what you created. Muhaha!" powers. Those I don't enjoy.
Well okay, ringing out people with the ejector gives me some joy. But my subjective joy in that moment does not erase my objective feeling that it would be more rewarding overall if they were not there to be used.
I use hazards just as much as the next guy when they are available. I play to win.

My problem is that the winning feels rather empty. Much more so with the hazards in play than without.

More like having killed two on the other team and then hearing "ITS AN AAANNIHILATOR ATTAAACK!!" and then seeing two of your team mates drop dead, because someone spent 100$ on the team.

If you don't want them wiping out your push then pay the $50/$250 insurance deposit.

It at the very least gives you a way to recover a losing fight and adds some tactics (I got an all time great from 2 ejectors and a charge).


Hazards also make you vulnerable.
A good sniper will headshot you anytime you use one in their los.

I'll paint a picture..

My team has the enemy pushed back into their base but they are doing a great job of holding my teams bots off. The Annihilator is ready a teammates says "I only have $215! Who can afford the Annihilator?" I then say "I have enough money and I am headed there right now."

I get up to the Annihilator and notice a cloaked enemy Assassin standing right on the button. I tried my best to prevent her from pushing it but she gave her life to push that button. Now that team doesn't have to worry about Bots so they advance forward pushing back or killing enemy Pros.

Now are bots meet in the middle but their Assault can't push bots fast enough because my team is about to spawn perfect time to use an Ejector.

I notice this is against my team but it's what came to mind.

juiced players are susposed to be a dangerous foe. otherwise stalemates couldnt be broken. It isnt so much the right class, or the perfect grapple. but each person on your team taking a turn at diverting the juiced foes attention. In all reality all it takes is 1 assault and 1 tank to completely nulify 1 juiced assailant. or other combinations of classes. I mainly play assault, well... i only play assault, and i can say for a fact that 1 assault can keep a juiced opponent off your turrets if played correctly, granted there is much less margin for error when you are acting alone.

6 players pr team allows more ebb and flow to a battle. In a perfect sense you should never die. Now after stating that, you will die, but so will they. Its a battle back and forth for area control, and lane control. The developers have given teams many tools to ensure a victory, but at the same time if not controlled gives the enemy team a way to get out of that impending doom.

When two even teams that are working together fight, the mechanics in this game make more sense. until then they seem cheap or uncontrollable.


Ejectors go on a cooldown after being used. If you are the assaulting team then you should know that thier control is required to acertain your victory. These map events have various roles depending on the situation of the battle. They can break stalemates when it occurs. They offer a way out when you are on defense, and provide another point to guard when you are on offense. If they were not in place, then the offensive team would only worry about bottleing the enemy team into thier base. and not players sneaking around to flank with an environmental. Especially with how quickly the flow of battle can change if 1 or 2 people die. you could be at the enemy base and if 2 people die, and you get pushed back. by the time they respawn you could be pushed back to the mid point, or further.

I understand map control. I understand the benefits it bestows.
And my main beef with the annihilator fx is not when its being used by the team in control, because at that point the benefit of using it lies much more in denying its use to the other team.
It is all the instances when map control is invalidated I have the most issues with.

i dont understand where you say map control is invalidated. could you please clerify.

The only acceptable death is hitting annihilator when losing to save your money ball.

If your team has map control and lets the other team hit the annihilator you deserve to be punished.

It's like not paying your speeding ticket and claiming it is unfair that you had to suffer the consequences.

If two teams are stalemated - why should eithers fate rest on who gets to the atom bomb first?

If they cannot resolve it with skill, resolve and tactics, why should it come down to a dice roll? (which it effectively is if we otherwise assume the two teams equally good)

How else would you end a stalemate?

I don't know. By calling it a draw perhaps?

Would be better than the "we need to find a winner so lets play another game for 2 mins" called Overtime. And much, much better than the senseless count of money.

But a draw would make players feel like that haven't accomplished a single thing.

The more you comment the more it seems you don't understand the metagame in MNC.

When your bot push is reset either by the jackbots spawning or the annihilator being used by someone on the other team.

So, football players who end up tieing 2-2 feel like they haven't accomplished a thing?

It seems more like MNC wanted to expand an already existing genre, but then didn't dare to take the full step, and thus ended with an unsatisfactory result somewhere in the middle between the two.

One of the inspirations for MNC, DotA, does not have annihilators, does not have ejectors, does not have juice and you certainly can't level up and tear down 2-3 towers single handedly, even in the endgame, so, why couldn't MNC mimic that gameplay more, it works just fine over there?

I loved the thought of MNC, and was happy when it was released for PC, but I pretty much agree with everything Bomben stated, and have yet to see compelling arguments other than the pretty vague "You need to play on a team" or "Its in the game, so its correct".

Because of this I have also pretty much stopped playing Crossfire (Blitz is still a pretty damn good gamemode, so Uber should have that), and, checking the activity on the servers we run, and general playercount across all, it looks like i'm not the only one.

The annihilator and ejectors punish players for not being aware of their surroundings. Not to mention they allow the losing team a chance to regain control.

then use the annihilator first