Support's over-healing: can't get no love?

thats kinda what were discussing.. They are advocating that the support who heals and holds areas is not doing his job, and thus should not be rewarded, I am advocating that that IS his job and he is not being adequately rewarded for it.

I agree with you. In many situations, this is the ideal behavior, actually.

For example, there was a game I played yesterday. I was on a team with an assault who was quite competent, and we were were attacked by two more assaults. Normally he would lose this battle. But rather than trying to attack directly, I ran around healing him for about 10 seconds. He would have surely died without me. Instead, he managed to kill both of them and we headed for their bots/base.

Out of this, he got extra money and juiced. I got $5 and a few millimeters worth of juice.

This is my point.. there needs to be more reward to supports who are smart enough to keep players alive when it matters, and let them die when it doesnt.

I don't always focus on healing, but when I do, I prefer to do so from a centralized spot, because when I put my gun down.. that is my way of telling the team.. HOLD HIS POINT.. its a key locaiton..

usually its a place that snipers cant get easy shots into, and helps my team have a mid way point to take a breather between fights, stop in have a drink get some healz and back to the fight.

at first it seems like a waist of time.. but than you start to realize.. hey wait I havent died wiht 90% juice all game.. whats going on..

oh its this support winning the game for us.. and last on the scoreboard because he gets no love for doing his job

SUPPORT

it angers me that people actually assume support is about killing.. pros or bots.

ive won many matches with a less than 4 kills, and was still instrimental to my teams success.. The only pros I really fight.. are cocky assaults who charge in to my web, or assassins who think they can get me before my shotgun gets them.

I dont hunt bots.. its not my job.. i'll clear them if they are in my way.. I'm not gonna run past.. but I don't go out of my way to do so..

assassins kill enemy bots, tanks defend friendly bots and kill bots that cross their path

assaults and gunners wreck turrets and enemy pros

supports establish zones of control, and snipers deny movement in open areas..

if you follow those rules, your team WILL win

Tell those rules to the teams I'm playing with


Anyways,
I know Overhealing doesn't give too much apparent benefit to the support, but I still do it frequently. Actually I always do it whenever i'm not doing something else for simple, yet important reasons:

- First and foremost: It's a contribution to the team. I don't play to win... but I like winning pretty much. 50% more health could drastically change the outcome of a 1 on 1 battle
- My e-peen grows along with the heal points counter in my Career window. I filled the five million points already :3
- Overhealed turrets last longer, so I can actually leave base once in a while
- Juice might come slowly, but it's an everlasting and always present source of it! Sometimes, on my way to mid field I even overheal Blackjacks for that reason if no one else is around
- I like the sound the heal gun makes. Whoowowowowowowowooo...

all good points..

I REALLY hate the whole constant juice gain argument..

do you guys play sniper at all? I run this extended clip/rof sniper build sometimes for fun, and I sware to god, I have filled the juice bar in 2 clips before.. 2 clips.. like 15 seconds.... I fill it so often I usually am surprised by it.. like in the scope killing bots and ding wtf? really?

and assassin.. dont even get me started with assassin.. those two fill juice so fast its sickening..


support gains juice the 2nd slowest next to gunner IMO, and thats only if his firebase is out and fighting, other wise hes just the slowest.. Gunner can gain at decent speeds if he mini gun spams.. but thats not the best use of his time IMO.. mortar is faster and more benfiical to the team..

Gunner gains juice much faster by using the mortar on bot-waves.

Yes.. yes he can grimbar.. or if he minigun spams a moneyball/jackbot/turret

do you have anything to add to the conversation? or were you just making that one quick point?

I already voiced my opinion on the overheal, it was the original "he gains juice through healing" argument.

The one that people don't like you know

you realize that the comment about the gunner was your FIRST post on the topic right?

If you mean the original comment about supports get juice for healing..

THIS ONE:

So I guess Runie = Grimbar now?

Also its a bad argument, because they gain almost NO juice for healing.. its so little its a non factor. heal 6 teamates from 0 health to full over heal takes over a minute and equals like 1 juice box pickup..

viewtopic.php?p=84841#p84841

This ain't the first time people discuss stuff like that.

OH NO GUYS MY SECRET IS OUT

Also you're joking, you can build juice very quickly through healing bots, players and turrets, generally the overheal wears off on one thing so you can still get a healthy supply of juice when you're done healing another.

you must be joking, if you use the words very quickly..

compare that to juice gain on ANY OTHER CLASS whos killing bots (someting the support is not good at).

even with a fire base, you have to wait for each wave, you can kill wave after wave while pressing forward.. and if your bots are pushing, they stop the enemy bots from getting to your firebase. Which is not my argument here, thats all fine..


but you can expect me or others to believe that healing is a sufficient juice gaining technique. compared to bot wave killing + juice pickups.. its just not.. and the argument of its free.. is irrelivent, its not free.. it costs you time.. time that you could be using to gain CASH

CASH is king in this game, not juice.. juice is nothing compared to a good cash flow.. hell you can buy juice if your cash flow is good enough.. plus upgrade turrets and skills.. and the support gets hurt in cash gain unles he plays the class in a specific way, where he runs around airstrike spamming noobs and shotguning.. or if his team is just way better than the other one, and hes able to get an uncontested gun up right outside the enemy spawn..


but yeah.. juice gain from healing is NOT as fast as you make it out to be.. you can take a solid minute of juice gain from non stop healing, and compare it to one assassin bot wave attack.. and assassin will come out on top, for 2 seconds of work. Shell also make a ton of cash compared to you..

You guys are going off topic, OP was not about supports juice gain rate, it was complaint about reward for over healing.

I played support, i overhealed a team mate which took little effort and time investment, got back a bit of juice and money, seemed fair to me.


Was a random pub game, became top scorer, most money and 30+ kills, most kills from firebase then shotgun. I have no experience of playing support against a good side though so dont know what his juice/money potential is like in those games.

But just from random pub observations a good support can easily top a team.

I think no-one is denying that Support is not powerful enough or incapable of making money. The issue is more with how he's going about making that money.

Aggressive play is rewarded; If a support rushes in and shotguns every enemy pro as they come, using a firebase as added firepower and air strikes for herding purposes, he's going to be top earner. Some of us are just arguing that this is not consistent with a class that has the name "Support". I'm not saying this is a wrong tactic (if you can pull this off more power to you), the problem I have is that it is disproportionally rewarded as compared to a more supportive style. Or rather: the supportive style is under-rewarded.

Those top of the board supports you've seen? I can bet you the spent less time in their own base than the tank has, not counting a brief detour to spam gapshots. As the reward system stands right now it's more profitable as a support to ignore base defenses -even when the enemy is pushing- and run behind the lines to deposit a firebase and remove enemy artillery. It's even better -from a monetary perspective- to have enemies destroy turrets that you haven't built so you can replace them with your own and overheal only those. (and maybe the ones you run past on your way to the enemy) That can't be what Uber had in mind for a support class.

Personally I like the idea of getting an "assist" from any kill a pro(or turret) makes that you are actively overhealing at that moment.

P.S.: Waziup posted a nice "how to play a support" style (here: http://www.uberent.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7645 I can completely agree with.

I think juice rises fairly quickly for us, I spend time healing Pros / Turrets / Then botts and it dont take too long

The only way Support can have a competitive level of money-making is by spamming gapshots. That's problematic. If the round ends with my Support at the top of the scoreboard, it means either my team was dysfunctional, or once we established control, I spammed gapshots ad infinitum.

I don't know whether the answer is to give more money for healing or not, but something ought to put him on even footing. When I play Support (and it's one of my two main classes,) I can be at or near the top of the scoreboard in bot kills with a well placed turret, but other than the occasional dumbass assassin, pro kills don't happen that often.

A friend and I have talked a lot about this, and what I think could be the solution is making it so that if i heal my mate, and he gets a kill lets say up to 5-10 seconds after i've last healed him, i get an assist.
Thoughts ?

I'd rather get some type of monitary/juice gain whenever a piece of the overhshield I gave him is taken away by enemy damage.

You should get assists from overhealed teammates, teamates you are healing, or both. It gives the support some extra money, gives money whores incentive to heal, and let's be honest here, it is assisting.

An assist should not only be obtainable with damage. A support just can't pump out damage at range. You are better off healing a gunner against mid/long range opponents than healing your firebase that isn't shooting at anything. And you are better off healing anyone that passes by your firebase, just because it's nice.

Assist streaks would be cool too, they added the bot streaks to promote objective-based play. Why not give assist streaks to promote teamwork?

Feel free to have a different opinion. Mine is just better because it's mine and I am in all ways superior to everyone else.