Sniper: Body shot damage reduction

I guess that depends on what you mean by "question your integrity". If you mean I'm suggesting that you (and others) were employing deliberate sophistry in defense of your preferred class, then yes. That's less of a commentary on your specific personal character and more of a commentary on the nature of discussions like this and the fact that a "It's fine, L2P" defense squad will always exist, regardless of the merit of that position. As you may have noticed, I've been very interested in this in terms of analyzing the qualities of the debate itself and how they tend to follow the same sorts of patterns across different issues across different games. The reason for that was because the issue was so obvious that I could remove the merit of the issue itself as an experimental variable. You may disagree with that (of course), but it gave me an opportunity to observe and see some very common threads.

That said, I could see why you would have taken that as a personal attack, and I wasn't helping in my delivery, so I apologize for that.

I agree with this. It's not going to go anywhere productive, and we all see it coming. >.>

Agreed.

I see the point you are trying to make, however you are missing the target in my oppinion.

Grimbar and his 'squad' have always argued that the sniper was fine, and that we needed to learn to play. Rather or not, this was a way of protecting their prefered class from a nerf, or their honest oppinion is irrelevant to the conversation.

Though taking that approach, tends to piss off other players, as your entire defense is simply "you are wrong because you are bad at this game" You essentially call someone wrong and bad in the same breath.

However with all that said, and i'm no fan of grimbars, I found nothing he said to be contradictive. He simply said that he was fine with the change. He said this because he is a skilled sniper (like it or not, its pretty well known hes good with the class) and as a skilled sniper, he was not nerfed as much as a bad sniper. He makes "headshots" he never spammed body shots, and so this nerf only effects him in one way: He no longer is rewarded as much when he misses the head an accidently hits the body.

I feel about the same way he does, though for me its bitter sweet. I still get face rolled by incredible snipers, but I also now easily face roll mediocre snipers (as an assault). I wish they would have addressed the class more directly: Take some ability from their defensive game, but I am happy that they made any change at all.

Atleast bad snipers are no longer a factor.

I find the funniest thing about this thread, to be the snipers who are saying "thanks now the class is worthless" LOL, no the truth is "you were never a good sniper.. AT ALL" and now you feeling the way you should feel. You are feeling worthless because you are worthless with this class. At least now you will have to learn to get head shots.

Scray thing is, a certain % of them "will learn to make headshots" this nerf will gimp most snipers for a few months, but eventually it will do the opposite of whats intended. Some of those snipers who were bad, getting by on broken mechanic, will actually get good. And the last thing any gunner wants to see, is a 2 "good" snipers on the enemy team.

But the last thing I want to do, is sit here and complain about a balance change before it has time to run its coarse. I'm greatful for the change, and enjoy the game as always.

/end rant

I see what you mean. I think the more important thing here is that it's a tangent I probably shouldn't have gone on to begin with. I was pretty much just thinking out loud anyway.

Most importantly, I'm really pleased with how Uber has handled things at this point, and think they're taking the right approach. I much prefer incremental changes made over time over sweeping ones, even if I think that more than incremental changes are needed. It suggests a long-term approach to supporting their product, which is a very good thing.

That said, I'm going to have to hop on a server with you sometime when I see you on. Assuming I can tear myself away from my newfound Civ IV addiction from the latest Steam sale. :mrgreen:

Oh god CIV 4.. Civilizations took part of my life a few years ago

and yeah add me on steam, i'll be happy to play a game with yeah.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/tinygod

Mortar them from over walls. I swear it works. Let me quote "Gen" from SF4:

"You cannot dodge what you cannot see!"

A man has a gun, he plans to shoot you, you have only a pile of rocks.

Is this a fair fight? Sure it is, throw the rocks at him from over a wall.

I'm being rediculous of course, and I personally feel that snipers are fine for now, and only time will tell.. however in every game ever made with a sniper, when ever a claim of over power is used, the same counter argument is always brought up.

"Don't let him get a clear line of sight"..

Its not a solid argument for balance, the same could be said as a counter to ANY class.
Thats my only point.

Cody has rocks on SF4, he often beats projectile-spammers.

The mortar is a OHKO rock. It is more like bullet vs grenade.

THIS ISN'T STREET FIGHTER STOP BRINGING IT UP

At this point, since the sniper nerf, the mortar does more damage to the sniper than vice versa. MOAR!!!

BroTranquilty, you're my favorite. You know why?

Because you're completely insane. It's like you're Mr. Pants on Head McMadness from the city of Completely Effing Bonkers.

I'm just saying the comparison stinks. I am not so good that I can beat a sniper with rocks, but I can beat him with mortars despite being "godlike". It's bullets vs artillery. Artillery is going to win, especially if that sniper has to move around all game to avoid them, at which point the assault/tank are going to win via shoulder-bash.

in SF4 Ryu had haduken, guild has sonic boom.

I think that proves i'm right.

Guile. Yes.

Lol IMO there is no good place to put a sniper's headshot damage anyhow. They aren't reliable, no more so than the xbox sniper I played with today that got like 15 a game.

Reducing bodyshot damage, especially with his rate/clip-size limits, does something.

Are you telling me you have the same pre-update problems with snipers afterwards? You are still unable to touch one, or get by his LOS? I think you would stop complaining if I played in your game to keep the snipers busy.

im just wondering how many ohko's do you get on snipers with the mortar as mine always seem to take them down to red health like just a tiny bit of health left and if they have armor they obviously just run

Found your problem. Xbox snipers are less reliable than PC. Simply a fact. Two players of equal skill using a mouse vs using a joystick the mouse will be more consistently accurate. This has been discussed and compared and proven hundreds of times over hundreds of games. Doesn't mean that xbox players are worse, and pc are better by any means. It just means mechanically the PC has a higher potential skill ceiling and certain classes will benefit more from it than others.

I wouldn't want to play a platforming game with a mouse/kb just as I wouldn't want to play an FPS with a joystick. Its possible but never ideal in either respect. Some games can do it far more than just "passable" (super meat boy is perfectly playable with a keyboard for instance.) but there is simply a difference in viability.


@tikki

Zero, unless its a critical shot its impossible to OHKO a sniper even if all 3 mortars hit him. Mortar does 90 damage per shot. If all 3 hit perfectly it'd only be 270HP, unless the sniper has already taken damage previously then even a no-armor sniper would have 10% of his health left (unless the mortars are crit damage.)

What is the rate of fire on a mortar with silver rate?

Like a second apart?

Now, what is the spread of a mortar :| .

Now, how does a sniper go about avoiding the suprise buttseks meteor shower?

"what is the spread of a mortar" its a variable dependent on the range, farther the shot goes farther they spread away from the center ball (also it requires a set distance before the mortar breaks apart into 2 or 3 shots so too close and it only does 90dmg)

1.2seconds with silver

Sniper rifle with no ROF is 1.0
Grenade launcher with no ROF is 1.0

mortar is a great weapon don't get me wrong. But I was merely pointing out that you made a either lied or were simply mistaken. You CAN'T one hit kill a sniper with the mortar, you can TWO shot a sniper (as long as they aren't running gold armor, obviously.) but twoshot is NOT one shot. its a 100% difference.

Sniper sees gunner, puts unbreakable plateglass between him and mortar launching gunner, proceeds to dodge in and out of cover between mortar shots each time using his rifle on the gunner. These are all hypothetical scenarios however, just as its possible for that sniper to kill the gunner before he is even in an effective position/range to mortar him its also possible for that sniper to somehow miss the giant gunner lumbering over to him and get destroyed by the gunner's massive damage output.

Or.... Gunner shoots mortar from other side of a glass plate already. Again, I can even do it with a product grenade. Just hit his sniping spot, wala, he can't push bots or harass pros. He has to find a new place, or a low place. Either way, he goes from both bot lanes and top of map, to only one narrow lane of sight to try and avoid mortar spam, grenade spam, productnade spam, ect.

Either way, I am done here. The sniper got a nerf. I have more sniper kills than 3 other classes. I continue to kill them, they aren't usually more than a zoning nusance. TBH, nerf them again, see if I care. I would RATHER a more USEFUL nerf, like the BROKE assault moneyball damage. BROKEN. Sniper ISNT close to it. A sniper sends a game into overtime, assault juice kills moneyball instantly now you win.

Product grenades bounce. Mortar does not. Sometimes there is no "otherside of the glass plate" for the gunner to get to without being in LOS for a long time before hand.

I'm not saying whether or not sniper is still an issue(I haven't tested it enough yet.) but I just want to point out the fallacies in your statements.