Could we get an official statement from Jables on why the discount is time limited?

As I have already stated, they can't change the first, and the second would probably help to bankrupt the company.

In addition, Uber has (to my knowledge) no way of determining who paid how much on Steam - they only know that someone bought the game on steam. Thus, they cannot in good conscience offer Titans for free to those above $90 because they can't determine exactly who is who.

People who argue around an ethical standpoint, instead of a logical one, are not fit to make these kinds of decisions, nor critique them. In my experience, those who do are not principle centered and have another agenda. Usually this is centered around themselves. In this whole dilemma, I've yet to meet a person on the opposite side of the argument who doesn't fit in this category. Yourself included.

And now, for another argument:

You yourself state that you understand why Uber made this decision. Why then do you ignore the simple fact that it was entirely within their rights to do so - and that this is behavior we should be encouraging from game developers? Just go compare this to Frontier developments or ArenaNet's expansion pricing. At first look, those devs are ripping everyone off. Objectively, it's probably the same principle: they need to feed their programmers and designers, so they ran the numbers and came up with the prices they did based on a desirable profit margin.

They're not stealing anything, nor are they ripping anyone off. They simply did what was necessary to both survive and to keep their promise to us, the community: PAT and PA will not stop receiving updates for the foreseeable future.

They've yet to break a promise without a reasonable explanation. They won't break this one unless they go bankrupt from PA/PAT's lack of revenue.

Trust me, once the upgrade offer expires, titans will be on sale again quite quickly, just like PA. If they weren't intending on doing sales, the stated problem of discount stacking wouldn't exist

What does this all have to do with ethics? The discount is limited because Steam doesn't know how to handle multiple discounts, and therfor Titans can't be discounted for anyone during the discount period.

Frankly, If you judge people to be unethical, then you better have a good reason to do so.

Also not sure if I like the idea of ciritizising the nature of 'giving out free stuff'. It's 'unethical' if someone gives free stuff out by the wrong criterias? For real?

But in fact, excuse me if I intrude once again.

I don't think many critic the price in itself. Prices are so subjective, I've games in my wishlist on Steam that costs 2 euro full price, and I'm still waiting to buy them during Christmas sales 'cos I want a 75% discount... where is the logic in that? Customers do not follow logic patterns. People always follow an emotional pattern.

What's wrong with the Titans upgrade is that (once again) we've been treated like idiots. And people do not like feeling that way.

Uber could have admitted to be in need of more cashflow in order to continue development and support for PA. I'm confident that very few would have denied their support.

Instead they suddenly retired a game from the stores that they promised to hold for years to come, forcing their customers to a new purchase... saying that it was for their own good.

I've seen companies with fewer competitors collapsing and bankrupting for much less. Not that I wish it to Uber, there are very talented people working at Uber.

But their marketing... omg... that's one of the worse I've seen around.

I'm super confused. It's not a new purchase per se - its PA +titans. They still support the game but there's no point in buying the old game when you can get both with a purchase of titans. You're arguing semantics here.
They were quite clear why PA was taken off steam - they wanted to get rid of the reviews that were both misinformed and out of date. Jables has said that multiple times.

There's no purging. What's wrong with wanting reviews that reflect the current state of the product?

You claim they can't change the first even though others have already pointed to several alternative methods, and you ignore the fact that it's a problem entirely of their own making because they wanted to get rid of poor reviews. I can't claim to know how many purchased the game in early access for $90, but I would hesitate to guess it is a small number. If they really can't afford it then they are in trouble and will probably go bankrupt anyway.

This is purely speculation on your part. I have seen nothing to indicate this to be the case.

You imply I have ulterior motives. This is simply a personal attack. If you think I'm a liar then so be it.

Again with the straw man arguments.

• I never said I "understand why" they made this decision. Do you eat lies for breakfast and then vomit them out for the rest of the day?
• I never claimed they weren't within their rights to act in ways that most view as unethical (quite the opposite actually).

Again, I NEVER SAID THEY WERE! I am beginning to think you have no capacity to argue honestly.

I never claimed they did, but since you addressed it, breaking a promise with or without an explanation is still breaking a promise. Generally speaking it's a good idea not to make promises you can't keep.

@silmarilwest with respect to the 'promises' thing... I can't think of anything major Uber outright said they were going to do with PA then didn't (there's still a couple of things in the works relating to the Kickstarter- shipping of physical goods is in progress but not finished and the documentary is in production apparently).

There are quite a few passing comments made in the live stream videos that people latched onto and ran with- which later didn't make the cut, although I'd say that was more human error / being optimistic on the devs part. The sad fact is that due to that, the devs are now very guarded about what they say *just in case* someone hears it and takes it as a hard promise People can be so black and white.

In saying all this, I'm not really commenting on this argument, I just thought you might be interested in some background from someone who has followed PA from day 1.

unfortunately : https://www.humblebundle.com/store/p/planetaryannihilation_storefront

just today a friend of mine on steam fell for it.

I can very well see that :-D It's a common issue in here, no worries, you are in good company

PA:Titans seems to be a well polished game. Aside for the Titans, more or less it's what many expected PA to be at release. That's why some are pissed that now they have to pay once more for a game they thought to have bought already in Early Access.

If you guys refuse to acknowledge that, that's your thing. It doesn't change the facts (and everyone has his own opinion about facts anyway, so...).

Pretty pointless discussion as usual in here. Why I even bother...

Indeed. The other side of the fence from my PoV appears to be saying they'd rather whine and complain about something being unethical instead of being grateful for what they have been offered.

That's fair, I am not aware of any broken promises myself. I just rejected the notion that breaking promises is okay if you have an explanation.

Agreed, I'm pretty confident I didn't change any minds, and doubt others did either.
xkcd.com/386/

Although I don't fully agree with you, I have full respect of you for the way you have approached this conversation. Where others would - and have - resorted to ad hominem, you have stayed true to argument and a levelheaded approach. Mad props. I hope to see you more often on the forums .

You said "offering only the base game would just create confusion". Please explain to me why offering the base game (PA) would create confusion? Why does selling SupCom 1 not add confusion? That is what I would like you to answer.

It's apparently the same situation....

SupCom 1 (remains available for purchase)
Forged Alliance (Standalone Expansion)

PA (removed from sale)
PA: Titans (Standalone Expansion)

Because people have already bought the base game from humble bundle thinking they got titans and only received PA. Also because its marginally cheaper than Pat. Also because SupCom FA completely changed the game of SupCom on many different fronts. There's little point to buying SupCom nowadays, especially with FAF hanging around. The same is true with titans and PA: except that by buying titans you get both, instead of just one.

You said "Also because SupCom FA completely changed the game of SupCom on many different fronts."

You hit the nail on the head with that one. That's exactly everyone's point. FA completely changed the game, so it was worthy of being called a standalone expansion. Titans is a joke. I'm not talking about the content itself, but the way Uber have tried to market it.

There fixed that for you.

Why are you wanting them to continue selling PA without the expansion?

How is that a standalone expansion?

So it's standalone, yet it's not standalone because it includes the original?

You see how ridiculous their marketing is.

Black and White 3 confirmed in development by Uber Entertainment.

Lol

Also the marketing is really simple with Titans. It's very similar to a "game of the year" edition of a game that includes DLC (or expansions), so users that already own the base game can get Titans for DLC type price, while anyone new will get the "full" version. This has been going on since like.. Age of Empires? Long time. It's weird how with PA there are still people complaining about this pricing model, especially when there is so much else in the world to complain about like massive financial inequality and how **** your internet service provider is.

It's still a standalone. It stands, alone. It doesn't require the base game to play.

Even if that's because it contains the base game, you still do not have to buy the base game. That is the definition of standalone. You can quibble semantics til the end of time but TITANS fulfills the qualifiers to be called standalone.