Whatever happened to this?

http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/3/19/4094472/uber-hail-mary-monday-night-combat

"Mod tools are built right into Planetary Annihilation as first-class citizens. You don't have to install any weird programs on your computer or visit sketchy websites; it's all available within the game."

"They've also created the tools necessary to hand the reins over to their fans to create what the development team doesn't have time for."

""I'm also cognizant of the fact that the most passionate fans on the forum aren't indicative of the mass market, but I don't really care that much, because I'm not making this game for the mass market," says Mavor."

:/

Space engineers dev's just started accepting pull requests on github.

Please stop pouring salt into the wound.

I know i've been hesitant to post a topic regarding what they've done as nothing good would come of a topic like that, but it's still pretty interesting, I've been following SE git pretty closely.

Maybe I should give that game a try.

To be a little fair towards Uber: PA very certainly does have a modding frindly architecture. It is just only half finished in many areas and Uber so far has not even taken all the "low hanging fruit" it could take. Some extensions to the server gameplay API and a script inject system for server gameplay scripts would allow quite a lot in terms of gameplay modding without that much dev time used on it.

Didn't mean to cut you off.

What they did over at SE was remarkable, and pretty much the best decision they could possibly have made.

Considering that their last version already contained a number of community fixes and that there are even more pull requests waiting...


What I mean is, the release of various components of PA in source form already has been a topic once. Back then the tune was "we will just tidy up the code and then we will release the relevant parts to the public". Especially true for the .papa format related stuff.

Unfortunately, that never happened. Instead mod support even ceased over time.

Work on mod support basically stopped right after the shadowing system was in place, the biggest stretch we could get after that was the addition of a set of general purpose unit type flags.

Only the AI has turned out to be quite flexible and to offer features regardless of Sorian needs them himself.

As a result, most of the modders, many of them high tier Kickstarter backers, have long abandoned this game. And what we have left is all dependent on 3rd party software such as PAMM. Seriously, shut down PAMM and whatever is left of the modding community is dead in an instant, and with it also whatever veteran players are being left.

PA is more moddable that 90% of my Steam library. No, Source games don't reaaaaally count (TF2 and DotA 2 being notable exceptions, but even then custom mods are a bit of a pain).

Can Uber do more? Sure. Is further mod support a priority right now? Probably not.

Does being bitter about it and quoting something from an article two years ago help anyone? Nope.

Neither does scaremongering and saying things like "dead in an instant" like that means anything tangible. If you want to go, feel free to go. But don't try and stir up a controversy out of thin air to try and get people to leave with you.

Just had a look at the Space engineers Github..... Damn.
Salt >Wound.

I'm just pointing out how fragile the situation actually is, right now. There is no other useful distribution method for mods in PA, and the number of persons left to contribute is a joke - not just in comparison to other titles from that genre, but even compared to the number of contributers the game had during alpha!

Player numbers aren't looking that great either. Two large sales since the start of this year, and the number of active players is still down to an all-time low, once again. Quite a number of them complaining about bugs, but most of them just quit silently.

And yet Uber has still the ambition of developing all new content by themselves, while the capacities are already used up by fixing bugs. Uber just isn't that AAA studio which can pump out new expansions on a monthly base. Architectural flaws on the mod support are far more severe in that situation. There is just no way that this could possibly work without any form of crowd sourcing - what mods essentially are.

first of uber needs content ( like a propper galactic war) to keep new comers into the game for much longer...
because mod support doesn't mean much when after every sale and player spike like 80 to 90 % of people leave after barely a week or less to not even care to touch any mod at all ...


@stuart98 yes it is a niche game of course it not for the massmarket or do you expect it to be another starcraftlike?

Point number 1 that began to cause uber to lose mod contributors in this community is that we are being ignored. We asked for many things such as mod integration and barely got anything.(given I'm happy the game supports modding at all).

Take me for example. I've put up multiple threads asking if uber is able to do anything about the moddb page to allow mods being hosted there or at least update the page info. I also said that if they aren't able to for some reason just let us know. Both threads were entirely ignored. As you can tell I am not happy about this.

This would not only be good for us modder wanting to get our work known, but also uber from a PR standpoint.

But since release other than tvinita dealing with balance it feels that uber does not even read the forums unless its their own thread.either that or they can't be bothered.

Sorry for hijacking your thread Stuart. Just needed to get my frustrations out there.

Edit:
And don't tell me that uber stopped interaction because the community is toxic. I've been involved in plenty of other forums such as the robocraft one, and I can tell you uber has one of the best communities I've come across.

You might think the PA community excels in comparison to other communities . . . but given that this is the Internet that isn't really a resounding plus point.

Have I seen worse communities than PA. Oh, hell yes. I've moderated a couple.

Does this mean that the PA community is incapable of being toxic? Oh, hell no.

@exterminans -

We've gone from complaining about mod support to player numbers. The two really aren't linked. I've been a part of various modding communities for various games over the years, and it always amazes me how important modders think they are when it comes to the longevity of a game.

Modding in general? Pretty important, it can help push the numbers a bit. But modders individually? As people? Really nothing to write home about. You can be the greatest, most legendary modder whose name people speak in hushed tones . . . but you'd be forgotten in four years. Your work would be cut up and recycled as new content by modders who come after you.

And no, this isn't a bitter sob story that happened to me I've just seen it happen, more than once.

Modding isn't the shield of aegis that will protect this game for the years to come. PA requires work in other areas. When I try to sell the game to my friends, "in-depth modding support" isn't one of the features that brings them over. Working save functionality, formerly the Unit Cannon, "better graphics" (yeah, gamers, I know), etc, et al. Modding is a tiny blip on most peoples' radars.

Reason is because everyone wanted saves now, and so everything else got put on the backburner. We're starting to see progress again with the latest PTE, though.

And is not that the important legacy?

I dont think the community as a whole ever was very toxic. Some people maybe, but not the whole thing.
I also dont think Uber has ignored modding in any way. Yes there could be a lot more. But there has been visible support. It is just randomly spread over many many requests and red trafficlights always stay in your mind much longer than green ones.
I personally definitely had many occassions of irectinteraction, but I still ofc wish for so much more....

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/what-are-ubers-general-business-activities.65210/#post-1019681

Oh look at this a 7-month old topic, still irresolute even though jables did respond to this :

I was calmed because I though well If they DO finally release the mod market in under two or three weeks then the article becomes true and doesn't remain dismally deceptive for more than a year and some. but it's now been more than two years this article is up and it continues to be dismally deceptive.

I get the feeling this dismal deception is something of a positive trait to Uber.

I don't have a horse in this race, I'm not a modder and I'm not likely to use mods, although it's not out of the realm of possibility. However, those quotes, however old, sure sound like promises. They sound like this feature was supposed to be a big deal.

I really feel this is a rabbit hole we shouldn't be going down, especially not right now in light of allot of good improvements being made.

The issue with this community is this: We get wound up about pet project 'A'
Uber listens and prioritises this over everything else because that's what we want. As soon as we have confirmation project 'A' is under way, we start complaining about something else, bemoaning the fact that 'A' wasn't actually that important in the first place and start digging up old quotes and pointing fingers. I can see why Mavor got fed up of us quite quickly.

I mean yeah, Uber made *lots* of highly ambitious promises, ranging from supporting 3 (!) operating systems on their built from the ground up brand new engine, fully 3D planets with orbital combat, naval, an orchestral soundtrak as well as things like modding support. Most of these promises (irrespective of the negativity of a number of detractors) are in one way or another.

This was all on a shoestring budget with a pretty small team. At the end of the day they've hit the *major points* on all of these. Even where modding support is concerned we do have at least some support, to the level we are starting to see progressively more elaborate mods surfacing like your new one @stuart98 . Like most of the other stretch goals though, there is masses of scope for more to be done. Be it naval, orbital, gas giants, the unit cannon, asteroids (confirmed wip) they could flesh these features out furhter. The same applies to modding.

The thing is people need to step back and realise, given the resources they had and what they started with (a pitch video and a very ambitious idea), what we've got is a small miracle. They've not abandoned the game, or in my view done anything *deliberately* to mislead anyone beyond being probably a bit too open and optimistic about a project they are all obviously very passionate about.

If you think Uber are 'bad' for the promises they've made, I'm just waiting to see the backlash against Star Citizen (certainly if you dig through all the videos looking for quotes there are crazy ideas banded about as confirmed that are *never ever going to be in the game* as far as I'm concerned). I'm not against SC either, I think it's amazing what they're doing, however if their community follow the path we have then there will 100% always be something to be disappointed about as there is no way they can full fill all these ideas to the satisfaction of everyone. The big difference between the two games is the underlying attitude, with Star Citizen it's one of optimism and positivity, the game isn't perfect but it's improving. With PA things went sour as early as Beta and it's not really improved since.

I personally have the most fun making mods because it's simply lots of fun making cool explosions and new units.

PA is a RTS by heart but it has the potential to become a sandbox to create things that the devs didn't have time to. Just think about how awesome it would be to have a simplified modelling program in PA to create fundamental parts of a new unit. (that's an extreme example)

If Uber wants the game to succeed far beyond the current day, making these things avaiable will ensure future success indefinitely.

From what I've seen they are slowly making more and more available. It's taking a while (as are other areas of the game which are arguably more urgent atm), but they are working on it

yupp lets totaly ignore what uber has included in the game so far but continue to throw words at them for things not yet in ... i totaly have to wonder why they are less and less on the forum ...

for gods sake he says even "I CAN'T MAKE PROMISES" ....

and what are people on this forum doing? thread things as set in stone to come yesteryear ... no matter the priorityfactor ... no matter how long stuff may take to be done ...

it's like the time of work that has been put into TA and SupCom has absolutely no meaning at all for people to relate to ...