Steam Workshop now lets people put prices on mods.

So don't buy their products?

well in the cases of all these they don't say no to profit.

they do like their hard work rewarded.

Even though FAF stays free it was bought back for more then you've earned in your entire life.

Inb4 he tells you he's a QC that makes $20k a week .

How much was FAF sold for? A few hundred thousand? Puhlease, I have a crummy job and made that in my lifetime. Then again, I have worked a great many year more than the typical forumite 20 something year old.

Not quite, The thing is you are making a distinction between the reason for the work when what really matters for this discussion is the skills applied to the work. Whether your making a game or fixing a game you largely use the same skill sets to accomplish the goal.

The point was to showcase that both scenarios used a similar thought process and to showcase that if you were to literally apply the same logic being touted by some here and elsewhere to PA's case it should have been a "Passion Project" and Uber shouldn't have asked for money to make it happen.

I don't speak for the second person you refer to here but I don't see how I support anything like that. What I'm supporting is the idea that someone who can improve something should be able to seek compensation in some for doing so.

To me it all comes down to one thing, the Consumers. Right now, I feel that the Consumers that support the Gaming Industry are, on average, not knowledgeable enough about the the Industry they support to make well informed decisions regarding said Industry. Case in point, it doesn't matter how many times we vote EA the worst Company of America nothing will change as long as Consumers keep throwing money at them. If we want the industry to change we need to tell them in the most powerful way possible, with our wallets.

If defective or incomplete products(regardless if Developers and/or Publishers meant to or not) are being sold the only way to fix that is to show them that we don't find that acceptable and make it a business model that doesn't work for them.

Mike

And, EA shows that will never happen Knight. If it could, I'd do it.

@KNight -

Please don't use that vote against EA as some kind of decent measure of anything. I give you far more credit than that.

Anyone who seriously voted EA as being worse than the Bank of America is either adolescent, lacking in knowledge about the real world (not just games development) and has their priorities so incredibly backwards it's laughable.

A video games company, producing games you're not obligated to buy, worse than company that literally ruins peoples' lives in order to protect their bottom line. Yes.

I said you're going to need to prove those baseless assertions. You went and listed games that have community modding scenes . . . that in no way prove the assertions you were making previously.

I'm not moving at goalposts. I'm trying to point out the gaping failures in your logic, to no avail.

Developers don't rely on users to fix their games. I've got Oblivion and Skyrim and I've never felt the need to install a mod. The same goes for BfME (and the sequel, and it's exapnsion pack), as well as Star Wars Battlefront and the original AoE II / Age of Kings.

The fact that you have chosen to do so? Or that modders have chosen to work on those games? That is entirely their own choice. The fact that of those games you listed, nearly all of them received official developer support post-release?

Stop throwing around fallacy declarations like it means a damn Especially when you use them liberally yourself.

I feel obligated to mention that I look at CS:S as a graphics plugin for GMod I was happy to pay for. Mostly to lighten the tone of the thread.

Don't worry I can do that.

http://www.pcgamer.com/paid-for-skyrim-mod-removed-in-a-matter-of-hours/

It took hours for a mod to be removed from steamworks.

http://kotaku.com/the-most-ridiculous-skyrim-mods-people-are-trying-to-se-1700002072

Then there is that. Noo... people aren't trying to scam people, I've seen no such thing, proof or gtfo... WELL HERE'S MY PROOF, NOW WHERE'S YOURS? Mine is confirmed, and now yours is based on fantasy and magical modders rights and unicorns and good intentions (from which the highway to Hell is paved with)

Let's hope this becomes the death of this.

Look again at the context I used it in, The whole point is that people think stuff like that matters when it doesn't. EA won't care what the consumers think about them as long as they continue to throw money at them.

Mike

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33uplp/mods_and_steam/cqoleee

Now, they just have to make setting it over 5 to require someone to check the mod.

Wow. I didn't know you saw my tax returns.

spot on eh?

I blow people's minds everytime

.

Well do most modders create whole new engines and build a game and artwork and music for them? Because when that happens, that is most definitely not a mod.

And again, the point I'm making is that the scope of the project is what makes a mod different than a game. Uber was not coming in and asking for money to create a mod for Supreme Commander. They were creating a whole new game. Now there are total conversions that have been sold as games, fine, but they have been the extraordinary exception and not the rule.

Because you responded to Geers post:

With this:

You sound like you support companies charging people directly or outsourcing their support to unsalaried modders to fix their own defective products. It is not like the game is off market now, Bethesda is still selling Skyrim, so are all of their new customers not entitled to a working product? Do they have to hire someone to fix their game? In what you stated, that plumber would be fixing a defect in a fifteen year old product that is still on the market being sold with the defect. The defect is the original manufacturer's responsibility to fix.

Agreed. But the problem with most if not all stores (digital or otherwise), once you start installing/ playing the game you can't get a refund, so if bugs pop up 20 hours into an RPG that make it unplayable, when then you are SOL. In a game like Skyrim there are mini patches for the mods themselves that enable them to work together, people are now going to have to choose which mod they want to use if the author making the patch doesn't update, or if either mod updates. Steam gives you currently 24 hours to find these conflicts and in a game where people consistently put in over 100 hours or more of playing time, what are the chances that customers are going to find out too late that their save files are corrupted or that the mod doesn't work, etc.? This worked with free mods because you didn't lose tangible assets, with paid mods it is a completely different story.

Even most games that are released do not use completely new engines.

I'm sorry i forgot to include an /s tag there. Even a person at a minimum wage job could afford that price after a few years.

What mods are modifying low level features in engines who aren't using hex editors and the like?