The Sniper Nerf. Let's discuss idea's :D

clearly you haven't played against a full team that has it all planned out when it comes to locking down a spawn trap, they can be almost impossible to break

Make the rifle bolt action, sniper = fixed

Yeah that's not a very likely situation and easily bested by a team that's just as coordinated.

From another thread, figured it's relevant in this one:

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I think that the following changes should be applied:
- Sniper Rifle must be completely zoomed in to Headshot. (nerfs quickscoping, but still, scope is quite fast in MNC so not such a huge nerf)
- Sniper Rifle's RoF nerfed slightly (and I mean slightly, not more than 0.1-0.2s) (nerfs close combat, as well as giving opponents a better chance to react to a body shot)
- Explosive shot deals more damage to bots, and gets more Juice so that the Sniper's farming is basically unchanged.
- SMG's accuracy increased slightly, drop off over range slightly lowered (allows SMGs to be more effective defensively and more effective when used to follow up mid-range body shots)

Let's go through the checklist...
- Still the best class offensively at range? Check.
- Still able to dodge spam? Check.
- With good conditions, can still pull off reliable close-mid range headshots? Check
- Can still follow up a mid-range bodyshot for a kill? Check.
- Can still juice often? Check.
- Can still set up easy kills? Check.
- Still has great area denial? Check.
- Can still kill bots and turrets well? Check.

Still completely viable, and even better in some respects.

But the snipers arms are to weak to pull the bolt back on the rifle lololololol :lol:

But the snipers arms are to weak to pull the bolt back on the rifle lololololol :lol:

If sniper becomes bolt action, expect the reload time to be half what it is now or less. Will noobs still cry?

I hope not. Bolt action with the current reload would make the Sniper useless >.>

I personally think an RoF nerf would be better, simply because there is no reason to force the Sniper out of scope.
All it really does is mess with his aiming if he wants to follow it up with another scoped shot.

Kinda like adding recoil, it serves the same purpose as an RoF nerf, but will make the Sniper annoying to use.

Recoil instead of rate of fire nerf would allow bot killing at least. I personally say the only suggestion I liked so far is making headshots require half a second of scoping. Didn't even like that too much. Recoil is also fine, or unscoping between shots.

For recoil to actually be a nerf, it would have to affect the Sniper's aim to a degree where it would take the Sniper time to drag the reticule back over a target's hitbox.

This is essentially a rate of fire nerf that makes aiming harder as well, and will generally annoy all Snipers.

Like, why not go for a plain and simple RoF nerf?

Unless you're proposing pretty weak recoil.

Adding recoil would allow the player's kill at reaiming influence the rate of fire. Making a plain rate of fire nerf would not, and would arguably lower the skill ceiling rather than increasing by giving players more time between shots to line up the next one.

Seeing as we're going for a nerf, which effectively is "lowering the skill ceiling", that's pretty much intended.
Making a class harder, is not actually really changing the raw balance of the game. It's just a temporary fix.

If you do make the recoil strong enough, such that it is a real nerf that limits the class' power, it's actually just an annoying version of an RoF nerf.

Basically, if you are to actually limit the class, don't do it in an annoying way that will make the class less enjoyable.

Trust me, he does not need a rate of fire nerf. Recoil would even be better than rate of fire nerf, at least he could keep hitting bots. Requiring a set time to scope in for headshots to work would be better. I don't think the headshot needs to be nerfed, I think players need to quit standing still and then blaming it on the sniper being too good, but if it has to be anything it should be headshots and/or aiming ease.

Why can't anyone see the evils in play here? If his bullets damage any better than they do now, he will get MORE complaints. If his rate of fire decreases, the game isn't going to be magically better without a playable sniper; there weill be other classes that make people whine, and that is going to get WORSE as the game was DESIGNED BY THE DEVS to be BALANCED with the SNIPER. No sniper, no balance, the devs know this. No explosive shot spam, assassin juice is the only thing you see in tournaments.

I wonder why I even continue to argue? I am sure the devs, who designed this game, isn't going to listen to anyone when they KNOW what the balance between classes looks like. They know decreasing 10 shots to 4 was more than enough to make up for m+kb's ease of use. They know why they put a sniper in this game, and how he affects gameplay. They know what they do could arguably overpower heavies, leave NO WAY to effectively apply pressure to a locked down area of the enemy's (without overpowering them with same tactics, i.e. "GIT BETTUR NARB! LEWLZ!"). I am not arguing even in favor of myself, a sniper nerf will only make a gunner-support's job much easier. I will be the one shouting after every game "GIT BETTUR NARBZ! LEWL!"

Here is a better idea. Someone make a "support-heavies only" server, and leave the traditional rules alone. Some make a "no snipers" server. Don't mess with everyone else's fun.

This isn't COD. No recoil.

Make recoil. Make headshots only work on stationary targets, or after the sniper has actually scoped for 2 seconds, or only on deployed enemies without headshields. (and bots of course, it stays normal on bots)

I could see how the sniper getting too many easy kills (boo hoo) can be a problem on CoD. Why is it a problem in a game where you must push bots and kill turrets to attack a enemy objective? The sniper doesn't do much of anything well, except force enemies to maintain a looser map control.

In this game, there is raw power pushes, and there are indirect strategical pressure pushes. I believe right now, they balance each other out. There is a LOT a heavy with a support can currently do, one of those things IS survive a headshot by a sniper (and the tank can without a support). When played correctly, this game really does function, a competitive team needs 2 out of 3 to be assassin/assault/sniper, and the rest to be 1-2 supports and 2-3 heavies. Different specifics are useful, if the enemy has sniper-assassin then you need assault-tank, if the enemy has assault-assassin then you need gunner-sniper-tank.

I wouldn't want to have headshots reduced in any way, shape or form. That includes quickscoping.

If you want to reduce him to bolt-action go ahead but allow us to kill an entire bot-wave in that one shot.

Yeah, let's keep adding annoying mechanics like recoil and jetpack cooldown. That will certainly get more players playing!

I think they would need to buff damage to the bullet. All around, slightly to pros and bots alike.

It would need to kill blackjacks in 2 bodyshots, 2 explosive round hits, and 1 headshot. It would need to kill assassins reguardless of armor in 2 explosive round shots, and all lights would need to die in 1 shot without armor. It would need to kill heavies in 4 body shots at highest armor.

After a nerf like that, who would need a buff? This would only get more complaints.

This problem has been had and solved by TF2 already,where the sniper is not OP but is very powerful on a skilled person's hand,and is often used in competitive play (Granary last point,badland last,Freight mid and last...).Just make it so you have to be scoped for a while before headshots can happen.

And I think we all know TF2 is a grat example of a fun and balanced class based game (Until they started to release class updates and polycount sh1t that is)

If something will realistically nerf his ability to hit players, it will still affect his ability to hit bots.
I very much doubt you could make a Recoil mechanics that only affects players. It with affect both or neither.

Also, you didn't address my point that making the class harder would only be a temporary fix.

I don't know why you think that lowering RoF will make the Sniper unplayable.
Just going to throw it out there, but Gold RoF isn't even a requirement on Snipers.
We're not talking about adding a 5 second delay between shots.
It would be no more than half a second.

Oh hooray, word of God arguments. Jesus.
Okay, how about you explain to me how limiting the Sniper's shots before he has to reload, balances him aiming ability.
I'm going to throw it out there, but, as you get better at aiming with the Sniper (possible with mouse and keyboard), you actually need fewer shots to get the same results.

They basically nerfed the Sniper's ability to bodyshot heavier classes to death in a single clip. That's it.

I can still headshot 4 moving targets around the map with a second between them. Well, 5, as I took Bronze Clip.
Still balanced lolol?

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I'm done with you.
All you do is say "The Sniper will become unplayable!" "X will become OP!" "Uber said so!" and "Just add [stupid mechanic that wouldn't fix the problem]!".
You're not worth the bytes you use.