PTE build 79270-pte now up

That could be an interesting (and easy to implement idea). I assume there is some kind of setting that makes it so projectiles hit the wall currently. That could just be toggled while leaving pathing in place. I don't agree with some of the hyperbolic arguments in this thread that 'static defense must be free'. I think if done properly the walls powering down could be a really neat mechanic.

No, not necessarily at all. There are many venues for your power to go down without a frontal attack succeeding:

• SSX power snipe
• Inferno Drop
• Unit cannon boom-bot blast
• Successful bomber run
• Etc

Yes, of course if someone manages to kill your power field it is already GG (especially in the current eco-meta), but a less energy limited economy would make taking some energy losses more manageable. This mechanic in general obviously introduces a lot of non-linearity; a power snipe can now be really, really powerful if you time it with a frontal assault. If you fail though, that frontal assault is going to eat wall. Sounds fun to me. Also works a bit against the defenders advantage, giving them multiple fronts to fight on.

The problem with that logic is that all of those methods of attack completely bypass walls and so even by reducing them effectiveness by the attack, they still are unaffected by walls anyway.

Walls only work when you can't simply bypass them and you have to go through them, and as such the best way to counter them isn't to snipe the power, but to use a method of attack that invalidates their existence at all.

Why snipe power with a drop and such when you can snipe a commander, or a factory, or an anti-nuke or an umbrella or a radar?

Frankly walls themselves don't have enough of a use at the moment anyway, and power walls only introduces a unit type that is further down the whole of niche to the extreme.

A power wall while well intentioned offers no advantage over walls themselves and never introduces a mechanic that would be useful to the game, multiplayer or otherwise due to the lack of a SP to design missions around.

Frankly power walls are a bad idea so long as normal walls are so useless outside of comboxing.

There is a lot in your post I totally disagree with so not sure where to begin. First of all the utility of walls is highly map dependent. On custom maps like Hot Platforms walls are an absolute must-build. In general the prevalence of choke points makes walls more needed. 1v1 ranked meta might not include a lot of walls but that doesn't mean they are not heavily used elsewhere. So i'm not sure what to make of the rest of your comments which are based on this faulty assumption.

Second of all, you are describing PA as if it is a game completely based around snipes rather than the gradual deployment of massive forces. Yes snipes are a huge part, but just because your opponent has walls doesn't mean you automatically go for an air snipe... it might be much, much easier to snipe someone's power with a few units than to go straight for the (typically heavily guarded commander). We haven't seen it much yet, but back when drops where used more frequently power was a very common target.

It is easy to think of quite a few circumstances where you may have invested considerable resources into a ground force that encounters a fortified point. The general meta will be to go around this point, or through it, or as you say to go for a snipe not limited by it. Having powered walls just adds a fourth option: go for a power snipe and then push right through the main lane. Just because you go around walls doesn't automatically invalidate them as a point of contention on the map. In general we should promote a meta that favors multi-pronged attacks, raiding, harassment, and multiple viable winning strategies instead of OMG snipefest.

I don't see how anyone can point blank state 'powered walls are a bad idea' when the intellectual predecessors of this game had both powered shields and powered static defenses. The mechanic could be good or bad depending on the surrounding influences. Too much theory crafting in this thread. Just try it in PTE and get some actual data!

edit: for the record I have ALWAYS felt that the strong anti-shield circle jerk here is misplaced. Shields induced turtling in SC2 because the maps where 2D with a strongly metal-limited economy. PA is fundementally about multi-front battles with massive armies of disposable forces driven by an exponential economy. Building shields will always be a stop-gap compared to the 1k units rolling up around you. /derail

Yeah sorry igncom1 but the way you play the game seems to be very different from the experience of the majority, since walls are used in the vast majority of games I see, unless everyone starts on different planets.

Using bombers to bring down the power for your ground army to attack the walls seems like a very cool and practical scenario to me.

Im not going to reply to everything here, because it would be more of a repeat to what I have said before, and we all have our own opinions on such and such.

And to be fair I have a great deal of forum fatigue when it comes to discussions that ultimately don't feel like they do anything, so I'll re quote what id like to address.

I feel like this is a little incorrect to say, as the objective that wins you the game is the commander, as we only have assassination as the game mode in PA, and any stratigy that isn't towards this goal of a snipe is ultimately superfluous.

I don't play as much PA as I used to, and even then, I only play the AI, and I am well aware that it's playing for the objective that wins you the game.

Any win in PA currently is a snipe, as anything less doesn't win you the game.

Thats all well and fine, but from my perspective, walls are pointless when compared to additional mobile forces.

Majority of the vocal community agreeing with me or not, this is stance I hold for all RTS games, PA especially.

If you only play the AI then you aren't really in a position to make claims for what's useless and not.

I think you'll find that snipes are much, much less useful against a human player who knows to expect it. And that's the way it should be, because basing an RTS game around snipes would be boring.

Snipes are there so careless play can be punished and underdogs can still win games sometimes. It makes the game more fun. But the game is still far and away primarily about conventional strategy and conquest.

to be fair towards @igncom1 he is in a good position to make claims to what is useful vs the AI. A lot of players only ever play vs the AI so it certainly is an important viewpoint he has.
Certainly not the viewpoint of a multiplayer orientated player, but vs AI gameplay should be considered as well.

True enough.

Although as I under stand it, mobile units are better then static ones in most RTS games.

I don't care if he played the game once and rage quit. His opinion has a grain of truth in it and you have no right to run around spouting the "majority voice" because you feel your opinion is correct. New flash: Everyone thinks they are "more right." The point of a discussion is to figure out where we stand and possibly find a solution, not shoot people down because they disagree with you.

Lol

Go play PA with real people. The game is all about snipes. Bomber snipes, SXX snipes, boom snipes, Sheller snipes, Vanguard snipes, nuke snipes, Halley Snipes, and Annihilaser snipes. Do I need to go on?

In many, many team games that I've played, snipes were what kept our team in the match even though we were losing the eco war.

Hmmm - just had a play with the PTE to get used to the new eco and test it out and all that good stuff... but game was cut short on one of the random generated planet systems.

The new options and layout is pretty cool.... but I did just have a natural planet collision that cut the game unexpectedly short.

I think its oddly fun they have them in, but maybe an option for these things to generate the system this way. Now I know how some players feel on some of them maps exodus crew make for a giggle ^^

....that's unfortunate.

But also hilarious

Who said anything about not liking the new ones?

So my first impressions: Random planet generation is still a bit ****. I got a starting spot with no mex in it, but 4 close while my opponent got a starting sport 4 for mex and no real expansion.

I like the commander changes. You can still go factory first but oyu need to be careful of what you are doing or you run dry.

Also here's a suggestion: since units with Tactical missiles are supposed to be anti orbital, I can totally agree with the part that the T2 bomber has a TML on it's belly and would have troubles shooting orbital units form the air layer, but why not make it so it uses the s. move to enter the orbital shell, fire it's TML and then have to return to ground layer?

Yes snipes might be the end goal but you don't just start the game and instantly go for a snipe. You build up to a snipe and fight battles on many different fronts in order to get resources, control of planets which ultimately allow you to execute your snipe, so you argument that "the game is all about snipes is misguided".

Technically, the goal is to kill the enemy commander. And, in a lot of games, you first kill him by killing his eco. Once his eco is 2/3 of yours, you can afford to hold his units AND snipe, while he can only afford the units to protect the rest of his eco.

Basically, sometimes it isn't the "snipe" that wins, it is the combat over the eco. A player can kill another in the land-war and eco, making the game practically over there and the commander death simply a ritual and formality at the end.

If snipes are all the game is about, where you don't go get a single piece of eco first, and you kill the commander 2-8 minutes in, the game is not living up to a lot of it's interesting potential. If sometimes a player can suffocate, or sometimes players can be even and a snipe occurs 15 minutes in the game, or even if a snipe can sometimes happen even to a player that was winning the ground war, then a lot more interesting situations are possible.

Basically, if 8 minute game ends are all the game is about, then you obviously have dox, bombers, and boom bots, but do you have shellers, laser defenses, inferno pelican drops, ect? People complained enough when grenadiers, mines, and combat fabs were literally useless dont-use units. If the game ends 8 minutes in, half the units in the game are dont-use units. I'd like to see a leveler now and then...

These changes remind me of something...

because it is not a orbital unit and i rather like it to stay that way ..

Tbh, with a ROF decrease, it could be made to shoot air and orbital. It wouldn't be efficient, its cost per how fast it can kill things it would be less than a tenth as effective as any other air unit for the same job, but it would be the only air unit that can kill other air, land, and orbitals, from farther than other air can kill those things, since we have no longrange fighter, longrange bomber, or anti-orbital at all. Worse case scenario, make it's orbital range significantly shorter like range 60, via giving it 2 tactical missile weapons and 1 is orbital while the other is land/air.

They would probably get use by a heavy air player as "vindicator" defensive jets, to prevent pelican or orbital invasion. Getting enough up to catch more than a single enemy would still be costly tho.