Make CFs only fabbers that can build any defenses

Discussion in 'Planetary Annihilation General Discussion' started by Tripod27, February 10, 2015.

  1. Tripod27

    Tripod27 Active Member

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    So, combat fabbers nerfed again after the mechanical lumberjack meta got going, and everyone's already talking about how they're going to be useless

    Why not make them live up to their name? Make them be the only fabbers that can build defences, so if you want a wall, turret, umbrella, artillery, etc, you need a combat fabber

    If you think it makes you too reliant on bot factories, make combat fabbers into hovercraft that are available at any factory (maybe not air because I just can't imagine it jumping off from the platform to the ground)

    Every time the thing's been buffed, it just ended up getting used for Eco boosting, this is the easiest way I can think of for basically forcing people to use them to actually fabricate things for combat, it doesn't even need to be given some sort of insane efficiency buff like it used to, because you'll have an actual reason to use it for the things it can fabricate, which is sort of the point
  2. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I am not quire sure the treeconomy was part of the nerf. Probably more thoughts about mines. Maybe @tvinita can tell us what the reason was.

    I don't like the idea of only having one single type of fabber that can make defences. I just don't like the idea. xD
    cdrkf likes this.
  3. Tripod27

    Tripod27 Active Member

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    Well you technically have two, although I can't remember the last time I saw an advanced combat fabber and don't even know what it can build

    I mean its basically the exact same situation as we have now, since currently only standard fabbers can build anything, and cfabs can just build mines and walls, so I'm just giving cfabs SOMETHING and not letting regular fabs have something to balance out regular fabs having everything
  4. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I think I would miss the ability to build defences via air fabbers the most.
  5. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

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    If it was mines then that seems even more silly to me. We saw much hand wringing from a few top players about the mine changes but in fact I didn't see a single example of abuse or bad meta resulting from it. Either way, a huge nerf to combat fabbers was not the right choice in my opinion. Personally I would caution Uber to not become too reactionary with their balance changes. I am all for the current fast paced PTE release schedule as it's improving balance loads, but this one came so fast we didn't have any time at all to process the last changes. I think the sweeping changes to combat fabbers and mines needed at least a few weeks to saturate before we decide they spawned some terrible new meta. There is a danger of the game becoming overly sensitive to whatever play pattern is currently established.

    edit: also I strongly disagree with the suggestion to make CFs the only unit that can build defensive structures. The division of labor should be that CFs are out in the field building defenses, buffing units, and laying/sweeping mines while regular fabbers are back in the base. CFs should be for establishing a beachhead or forward post, not entirely building it. A better solution is just to make CFs build things more slowly than regular fabbers but with more range, since they are a multi-purpose combat unit not a dedicated builder.
  6. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I don't think so. I am all for a change to PTE every day. As long as only proven and accepted changes make it through into stable it is totally fine to be reactionary. Nothing better than a playable test game to get rid of false balance claims.
  7. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

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    Yes, I suppose assuming about 2-3 weeks before a PTE hits stable, we'll still have a chance to see how things play out. But i'm just a bit worried we might see this PTE released this week, which in my opinion isn't enough time to fully process the last massive balance update.
  8. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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  9. nick2k

    nick2k Active Member

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    I sorta, kinda, just a little like the idea. just a little.
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  10. Tripod27

    Tripod27 Active Member

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    :(

    What don't you like about it?
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  11. Diaboy

    Diaboy Active Member

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    I don't like the idea of them being the only fabbers for defences, but I don't see why the shouldn't be able to build defences as well as some of the other fabricators. Kind of like a FARK with some limited blueprints?
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  12. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    t1 combatfabbers build mines and walls already
    t2 CF can built turrets which allows for turret creeping
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  13. Diaboy

    Diaboy Active Member

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    Well, I'll just get back into my hole then :)
  14. Pendaelose

    Pendaelose Well-Known Member

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    I'm not as much a fan of removing defense building from the basic fabbers. I understand OP's reasoning, but it would also become a pain in the *** to micro more than 1 set of fabbers just to build the basics.

    That said, I'm totally cool with the idea of letting combat fabers build any defense structure and maybe even giving them an extra structure or two (in addition to mines).
  15. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    also noteworthy because not everyone knows ( again description update please) both combatfabbers are amphibius and can built mines at the bottom of the sea ... don´t know if they do propper damage to ships though ... so realy if you are smart CF´s allow for some intresting stuff ...

    one thing i would wish though for advanced CF´s to build pelters and radars for firebases ...
    Last edited: February 11, 2015
  16. frostsatir

    frostsatir Active Member

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    Adv CF would be useful with vanduards, but with 150 HP they are UP. Not see sense waste 2500 metal for spamming laser towers.
  17. Diaboy

    Diaboy Active Member

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    I was thinking about this earlier, with the reduced radar range and the need for forward radar positioning ahead of an attack, I think this makes a lot of sense. I think I imagined that the basic combat fabber could build the single laser tower and AA, but hadn't realised the advanced ones could build other defense towers.
  18. zihuatanejo

    zihuatanejo Well-Known Member

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    No. Just no.. don't think this is a good idea at all. Main difference is combat fabbers have a much more powerful build rate (what is it, 60 metal/s instead of 10?), and they can repair units. This suggest change would be way to drastic.
  19. Pendaelose

    Pendaelose Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but especially in the early game (when these build rates would mater most) they would be impractical to use just because your economy can't sustain 60mps.

    If we're using them for defensive structures without any changes to the game couldn't we just start the defenses with a standard fabber and let the combat fabbers run the 60mps to flash build them? If this were as OP as you suggest I think it would be more common.

    When combat fabbers were first introduced I remember trying to use them as build assists with my factories, and they worked great, except my early game economy crashed down like a planet slam. If I had the metal income to support them I had no problem just building a long row of factories instead of assisting.
  20. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    I'm against balance changes that don't have a logical explanation and force a certain playstyle to be used.

    The fact of the matter is that as long as all of the units are made of paper the combat fabber is going to be useless in its intended purpose. The only way to fix combat fabbers is to increase HP of everything that shoots so that combat fabbers actually increase unit life time a bit.
    duncane likes this.

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