Build 77337-pte now up

Like this post (to show interest) if you think there needs to be bigger maps in the queue top promote macro rather than the tiny maps that promote micro.

It's just a good time to do this because it looks like expansion is coming back.

hey guys! im going to host my Map Rigs a recreaction from Supcom 2! Naval and Air map (altho you can ues bots to go from base to base )

nooooo

I'm very interested to see how nerfing Pgen health will play out.

Considering the fact that metal was the more vital resource to knock out because of the fact that it was spread out, easy to kill and overall represented the control a player had a map, its understandable to see why it was the primary target.

But power is almost always in the center of the base.

I used to use power as walls since they had such decent health and helped filter enemy units. But now with this nerf, It seems the wiser choice is to keep it surrounded by factories.


Since power is usually clustered together, Power may be the better structure to harass than metal because it will be MUCH easier to knock an opponent's power out because all you have to do is focus your firepower in the area rather than spread it out.

I guess if you can get into the main base and are able to take out enough energy you win anyway

Not entirely. What about distracting with a force of tanks, then attacking from the rear with boom bots?

Granted, It may just be better to target the commander, but if he's in a well protected spot, this would be an effective way to knock out someone's production %.

Very interesting changing list, but what about Kestrels?

I like idea hard-armored gunships from TA, but kestrels not looks like this.Its just a little harder for kill than t1 fighters lol. In 95% big games people prefer patrol planets with t1 bombers(sometimes with t2 bombers), but t2 gunships really not perform their task in my opinion.

Kestrels needs in radical 2x hp boost i think...

I heavily, HEAVILY DISAGREE with this idea in all methods and reasons for every happening at all.

High HP gunships are a terrible idea completely as they might survive fighters a little longer (Because having a unit survive it's counter is a good idea /s) they also have a tenancy of surviving AA much longer as well.

You cannot and should not reduce a counters ability to do it's job as otherwise you invalidate it even existing.

This is a TERRIBLE idea, I have played with high HP gunships and it is GOD AWFUL.

0/10 bad idea.

gunships need to have high hp to make up for the fact that they are slow. A slow and low hp air unit that has no amazing special abilities is useless

Well I think he has a point that gunships could do with a minor tweak.... they're a bit too weak at the moment.

It's a t2 air unit, a group of them should be able to deal with light t1 aa defences without issue however that currently isn't the case.

Whilst a 2x health increase would likely throw them too far the other way, at the moment you can only really use them if they are attacking targets with *no aa at all*. The problem with that is I have t1 bombers that can fulfil that job and they cost less.

I have very good reasons to disagree, I have played SUpCOm 2 and having gunships that can survive a consistent AA bombardment for even a few second can allow a strategy of using only aircraft, and it's it simply horrible.

Having a gunship that can survive for a few seconds over AA leads to a situation where building a swarm of gunships allows you to mob over and kill everything on the map.

Either it would remove the point of land units, or flak rushing would be mandatory to even survive.

Units like aircraft that are both fast and can cross all kinds of terrain with ease should not have survivability in anything else other their they ability to easily retreat.

Bombers are good right now, but they lack sustained DPS. Gunships can sit above they targets until either they or their targets die, something like that cannot afford to have the same level of survivability due to their DPS style attack, they only get better over time as they continue to shoot.

I stand by my claim that it s terrible, terrible idea.

I think a Kestrel might have made @igncom1's wife pregnant or something, I don't know what's up with his seemingly hyperbolic concerns.

I also don't know when gunships started getting discussed here, CBA to read all of it.

But anywho, gunships really suck right now. A single missile defence tower can kill a bunch of them, and fighters wreck them (4 fighters insta-kill). Late game (i.e. by the time you can actually get them because they're crazy expensive), there's barely anywhere on the map they can go, and even the places they can go, they do so little damage that it's not worth risking sending them there in case they get chased down by fighters.

1.5x HP at least, please.

The whole of T2 air needs a rework though, T1 is just like T2 but better (and more intuitive because there isn't a glass cannon missile gunship disguised as a heavy bomber) right now.

In SupCom 2 the only AoE AA was the Bomb Bouncer. SupCom 2's gunship situation is incomparable with PA's.

YOU RUFFIAN!

Actually it was my experience with supcom 2 that showed me what aircraft with HP are like.

Imagine a bomber with double HP?

Even the fighters have too much HP for my liking.

And I entirely disagree, as if anything Supcoms 2's aircraft are exactly like PA's.

ANd the bombbounders AA was an ability, not a weapon (And it was essentially a insta-kill weapon too. Worked against ground targets too. Killed a commander with it once.)

Maybe we should look into the CUBs way of doing the gunship.

Health: 400(300)
DPS/metal: 0.0125(0.0208)

This makes the gunship tankier than the fighter, and decreases its insane DPS to be more in line with bombers.

PA too different with SupCom 2. Don't forget that Kestrel is t2 unit. So at t2 study of game is not a big problem get 50 spinners and nothing from air(except t2 bombers with micro) can't counter this.Not a problem get many own fighters too.
I played some mods from TA and you can believe me that it could good idea with right balance.We can make them a little more expensive(same cost with t2 bombers) but let Kestrels carry their task!

it is great that you can now rush an ssx in about 6 to 8 min. remember to defend your orbital layer hehe.

A bomber with double HP? Sounds good! Well I think 100 -> 175 would be better, so it's still 3 fighter shots instead of 2, and 7 Spinner missiles instead of 4. Then with a slightly reduced damage, and fabbers with slightly more HP, bombers would be more fun to use, and the game wouldn't be quite as hyper fast paced as it is with air right now, and those who prefer "grand strategy" over micro would be having a bit more fun.

Why is this discussion even happening?

We shouldnt be debating the effect one unit has on the game. WTF.