Tanks are OP... Please Nerf

hmmmm

Not necessarily. You can rush Tier II in teams quite fast and this changes the balance a lot! Remember was CocaColin always says about energy---it doesn´t count anymore if you rushed Tier II. You don´t mind 50 Ants anymore if you got five Vanguards/ five Kestrels/ five Bluehawks/ five Leviathans!

I use land scouts quite a lot. I don't use them as "scouts" the way you might be thinking, but I keep them in armies to extend the range of my units. Defensive armies can rely on radar to do this but if you are pushing against their base you need something to let you see what is ahead. Air units can work I guess, but they have their own problems.

Air scouts are hard to use for army vision because they don't move with the group. You can't just give a move order and forget it. They are also easily picked off by fighters. Using fighters has the same micro problem as scouts, but they at least don't die as easily. They are more expensive than scouts though and they are usually better used somewhere else.

Since I do most of my air scouting with fighters, I probably end up building more land scouts than air scouts over the course of most games.

Now you mention it, can add that I postulate we move *all combat units to t2* with immediate effect!

That will open up for some fantastic strategic expansion play, kinky fabber on fabber action and most importantly the truly inspiring 'static build' by @masterofroflness which we so seldom see in competitive PA recently due to all those silly dox and tanks running around.

Pelter creep ftw

Wasn't the Static Build video from @Pizzalover3000?

Ooops!

I dunno whether to laugh or cry at this whole thread....

@cdrkf If the game gets to the stage where he has no weakness at all anywhere around him, front back or sides. It means you needed to be more aggressive earlier on. I only say that, because if it gets to the stage he's surrounded by defense, then he's both ahead of you, and isn't feeling threatened by you and can comfortably expand and eco up/build big army and win.

@Nosebreaker I think you're confusing things a bit.

Assuming I've got it right, I'll put it into 3 points.

Firstly: What your original post seems to be saying is that t1 tanks were somehow too good/too powerful in comparison to the rest of the game as a whole.

Secondly: What everyone else seems to be saying is that tanks are not too good/too powerful in comparison to the rest of the game as a whole.

Thirdly: What everyone else seems to be saying is that tanks are too good/too powerful in comparison to only bots.

Therefore if tanks are not imba compared to things other than bots: The obvious first step to a solution is to make bots more powerful and see how that affects gameplay.

The solution you put forward to make tanks only t2 makes the game less diverse as a whole, and simplifies it only by dumbing it down. If you can vouch for this kind of solution, you've never played Totala or Sup Com. I suggest you at least watch a few youtube games of both to see how gameplay has evolved in comparison to other rts games which don't play like this unofficial series (Totala- Sup com- PA). That's Total Annihilation to anyone not getting the totala reference.

Thank you for your time

Thinking about this further.
Consider the possibility that there is room to push the currant OP tank further back by increasing build time and metal cost and introducing a light recon tank. to put in comparison http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_II
In game a lightly armed, fast paced lightly armoured vehicle some what like the flash tank or the core instigator.
People who love their tanks will have another tank to play with.
People who love raiding and the early part of the game will still have that part
The Op tank is still in game and still shows up t1 just a few mins later in 1v1.

People who dismiss the raiding part of the the game and go for currant op tanks for early map controll will be suitably be punished.

A side effect is that you would be able to increase hp of the currant useless t2 tank.

yeah also make a bot that is heavy with a close up flame thrower and is slow. Why even bother with bots and tanks when we can create a single style machine.. bots to just take on every role.. I also want bots with jetpacks that fly and have AA and a jetback bot that throws bombs down.. So much easier... no longer I have to think about wether to go bots or tanks or air..

Edit:

Now to be serious. Bots have a distinct role aswell as Tanks and air. dox raid.. and they are really good at it.. Dodging bombs from bombers all day any day. Super easy to do all you need is to pay attention to when the bombers are comming. tanks are slow and just push for main base. how to break it? Bunker up with comm at the front to hold it while simontaniously rekt his base from multiple directions.

The Problem with this? The Ranked maps are small or very very tight that doesn't really allow dox to be used effectivly. take forge for example. it's the planet is so full of CGS and is so small that dox can't get around your tanks.

If you take a look at Meso.. now thats a map where dox really start to shine.

How to combat tanks!


Step 1 make a Tank factory

Step 2 spam tanks!

How to defense from Tanks


Step 1 build a wall box with a opening at the back

Step 2 build 3 laser turrets!


tanks are not op

wow First part of your post escalated fast.
Bots with jet packs could be very interesting! If balanced correctly! I believe one of the warhammer 40k games had the basic marine with limited jet packs on.
Dox with flame thrower http://guns-pictures.drippic.com/m2...ory.com*smallarms*imgs*m2-flamethrower_2.jpg/ some what like one of the Heros from ww2, Or http://rpggamer.org/page.php?page=3355&name=NA4/DP Flamethrower For a different type of image. That could definately work. those units would come down to balancing build times metal costs and maybe even a new factory or part of a existing factory upgrade allowing those units.
Thank you for your Unit addition post, Though I do suggest balancing and nerfing tanks first with the currant build before adding more units in. You Know give choice to the player [Choice]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess we just could add Hover tanks for"Kablamo" Tanks for the sea.
Amazing you werent being serious yet your creativity came up with two new awsome unit ideas...................
Perhaps you start a thread of your own and let creative juices flow so to speak. Who knows what might come of that. Ive got a couple unit ideas I would Be happy to post in your thread.

The Nosebreaker Likes this post

It's my job to be creative anyway I forgot the /s after the first part.

Anyway.. for interesting design you want bots, tanks and air to behave diffrently and to be good in diffrent situations. (this is what we are going for right now). Bots for raiding or as meatshield, tanks as main army, air for support, raiding, snipes. But we told you that a 100 times. Now the reason why this is interesting is that you need to think about what will be more usefull on the MAP you are playing on. Yes the map not the units pretty much dictate to what you are going to be using the most.

The reason you and many others find bots lacking (i presume in ranked matches) is because the fact that most of the are really small with many narrow passages. This leaves no room for bots to shine. Also on random maps Dox shine as metal is nicely spread out most of the time giving you a good advantage of raiding and map pressence where vehicles are to slow. And if we look at custom maps they are 8 out of 10 times turtlefests with lanes so bots are also useless on those maps.

From what I read you want bots to be equal to tanks to be equal to air to be equal to naval. This will make the game really boring. as you are pretty much need to duplicate units to all types or else its not equal (even if they have diffrent variables like RoF, Damage etc.) There will be no reason to choose what to play because it just doesnt matter. And now that I think of it. Bots will be played the most as they are faster and thus will kill your enemy faster. Tanks won't ever see the light of day anymore.

I also presume thats why Uber removed the stinger. first to let people take the choice wether they want AA-Air or AA vehicles or just roll with bots. But also, if the stinger was as fast as a dox, nothing could stop it from raiding everything except for your metal in your base, as bombers are a really good counter to dox if your opponent issn't watching his dox and starts patrolling.

I would like there to be a raiding element to the game you know micro..... In the early game. Once tanks show up couple mins later on the 1v1 maps, Raiding is pretty much done with and it becomes a macro unit game. I would not be upset seeing all bot armies if that was the player choice. Or all tank armies if that was player choice.
We are playing a linear game for unit choice that is dictated by having no choice in unit selection.
It feels like a pick a path book with only one choice on the bottom of that page and it says turn to next page!!!!
Remember OTA and being swamped by unit choice and strategy!!!!!!!
If this game is suppose to be the spiritual successor to OTA wtf are the units !!!!!!! Its like opening a modern day pack of crisps.... Packet looks huge open it up wow five chips... no wait six....
WTF are the fields of wreckage
WTF is the battlefield Height advantage to range

Ota as an example had a plethera of units that some times lead to unexpected interesting games.
I digress some, Pa brough round maps!!!!!!!!!! to me that was equivalant to the renaissance.
Pa brought multi plantes and death lasers! brillant!
Wtf are the units but!!!

To Answer your question


The Nosebreaker Approves this post

Why can't you raid with tanks?

All it takes is for you to approach from another angle to starting raiding where no defences are at the time.

If anything, any battle where one side is a bunch of buildings, and the other a mobile force, is technically raiding.

This is why I want better turrets (Or something that can't shoot over walls, but has more HP) to allow there to be real front lines, but with the sufficient accessible artillery to prevent trench warfare.

So that players will quickly establish strong points across the map that players with try to navigate around, rather then blobing into a single army and a charging away at the enemy's base.

Truth is this game needs a design overhaul. Dox is the only viable bot, while boombots are good for a bunch of maneuvers (primarily assassination and destruction of isolated targets with a good micro); air is just not cost efficient and t2 needs a tweak (bombers are bad but if you micro them they're just plain broken);T1 naval gives you good range and sustained damage, enough to win in some circumstances (i.e. Sea start against isle). But the real reason why the game is a bit boring is the fact that you can simply spam out dozens of tanks and aa tanks (5:1 ratio) and just wreck everything. There isn't an alternative to such simple strategy.

Im not sure I agree with that.

As most of the bots are simply weirdly balanced, as are the aircraft.

Do I dare?

I'll probably regret this later.

I'll just leave this here.

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/rel-server-mod-statera-balance-mod.60342/

Ignocom1
Thats called an attack/ Offensive not a raid, a raid isnt a slow rumble through the desert to get to your location
pa only has mbt no light or recon tank, Therefore no raiding tank. If you dont understand that then you lack military experiance education and understanding.

A raid is a fast paced Shoot and Scoot, Maximum damage for minimum time in location.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_(military)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_(military)

Those two links may help you further understand.


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