Commanders leave wreaks.

I know we talked about this, and we talked alot about wreaks in general when they were removed but looking around I found no specific thread for commander wreaks though they were mentioned in many threads.

More than a question of realism, I think it's a question of balance. If you guys don't know how balance works : a reward should not equal another reward, you have to instigate as much choice as possible. cram it into every nook and cranny.

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/internal-playtest-–-fabber-balancing-naval-balances-anchor-model-lots-of-awesome-changes-2-13.56498/page-2#post-871701

so personally I believe coms should not leave wreaks for two reasons. One : because of the "WTF" and anticlimactic factor of a wreak being left in the center of what would otherwise be an epic explosion. To me it's just a constant reminder of the popcornyness of everything PA.

TWO because you already when out of you way to get a com kill. what? was it not motivating enough? No, the center chess piece which allows you to win the game without having to kill every single unit on the map isn't really worth it, but a bit of mass extra and OOH BALLER now I'm game!

(I am, of course referring to 3+ matches here)

double reward. the mass cancels out the negative of the the explosion that'll destroy some of your stuff with a supplementary positive.

I now by default play with the PAMM mod that adds wrecks back in. With the improved pathing it really makes the gameplay much better. Wrecks should be back in vanilla IMO.

Comm wrecks are the only real nod to how important reclaim was to prior games. I also don't agree with your points tatsu. IMO it's not anti-climactic, and the wreck metal is only a tasty motivator if playing a game mode that heavily limits metal income.

I don't care about com wrecks at all. It's a single wreck that spawns when my 1vs1 ends.
But wrecks in general need to be back and need to matter in a metal limited economy from t1 onwards.

I asume the question is "should there be a com wreck"?
I don't see why not.

About the metal value: Reclaiming costs you time and energy (unless done by combat fabber).
Unless you are in a metal poor game or are otherwise already hurting for metal reclaiming it will simply exceed your metal storage and be lost. Entirely.

Reclaiming has no purpose if you are already at full storage. Only the (hopefull rare) phases where you are OutOfMetal. At wich point sending a fabber all the way to collect the commander wreck propably takes more effort then it is worth.

Most of the times wrecks are only a hinderance for building new stuff, not a valuable resource.

Player should always be out of metal. If they are not either the balancing is wrong or they are playing bad.

Well, not OutOfMetal, but LowOnMetal. Storage should not be empty, but everything between 1% and 20% is allright!

Oh, and I like commander wreckage! Its a pretty tactical aspect on UltraSmallMaps AND it´s supporting the usage of the Reclaim-Command!

It sounds like your vision is limited: You think of FFA-games with 3+ Players. Now your conclusion is that killing a commander results in securing the deaths commander´s base results in massive additional metal income.
But that has not to be the case! Another player can secure it (the ComNuke may have destroyed Player 1s army) and benefit from it. Or even NOBODY could reclaim him as too hard battles would be triggered!

But, and this is important as ShareArmy is the most unique PA-mode, there are also ShareArmy games!
Commander 1´s Death -|-> Teams Death! (general rule in ShareArmy)
Commander 1´s Death -|-> significant advantage for Team II (only a "small" loss of eco and a good fabber)

But: Commander 1´s Death MAY result in advantage for Team I---maybe his death wiped away an enemies army...
...but the Wreakage could be used by the enemy now!

You see, there are tons of possibilities!

I think what you meant is: Players should try to have a close to 100% metal efficiency.
Actually running out is not good idea, because it means sporadic activity (like expanding the base) will be slowed.
You have the steady drains of your factories (excluding rolloff time). That should fit most of your income, sure. Maybe even slightly above (so you can refill the storage during rolloff).
And the peak drains of your fabbers. For the later you need the storage mostly.

Reclaiming as a whole is badly implemented and thought out.

It costs Energy to suck up Metal, but not to pump it out of the ground.
Trees are made of Metal.
There are no Boulders to reclaim for Metal.
Units leave no wreckage, so there is no build up of resources for us to fight over as the game progresses.
There is not enough pressure or opportunity to Reclaim; Metal is rarely scarce, and when it is, it is locked up in the Enemy's structures in their base.

And there are no Resurrect or Capture functions.

Commanders should leave wrecks, Units should leave wrecks which degrade, Trees should be burnt for Energy, Boulders should be reclaimed for Metal.

The Commander's beefy Energy and Metal Generation should be nerfed in order to make us need to reclaim, or these reclaimable sources should be worth enough to entice us to do so.

Haven't really looked into this, but reclaiming does not seem to give you an eco boost as expirienced in SupCom.
I haven't really seen any boost from reclaiming in PA and it seems to take ages to reclaim a building in PA.
And as the influence apears to be this subtile, I probably don't reclaim as much as I should...

As for the wreck model, creating different wreck (some remaining feet and a exploded torso?) would require extra work and resources

When playing with expansionist, which limits players by metal and makes wrecks have so much hp that they stay, it does help players a LOT to reclaim.

http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=232883

See the gross metal income, especially mine from minute 11 onwards. burntcustard had thrown a rather large army in front of my base and I reclaimed with multiple combat engineers. Gigantic spikes in income, it kept me alive a little longer, even though I had made mistakes earlier so I had not many mex anymore.

It's a pure balance issue, wrecks need to have way more hp to stay alive and players need to be more metal limited.

And in the end, this is what really drags PA down. There is a serious lack of these kind of small attention to details things that make a game truly great. I guess that is what happens when you try to build a ground breaking RTS on a shoestring budget

Good source of mass in a low econ game

don't be daft
never not run a 2k metal/s surplus

did you read my post? like at all?

PPPPPPthththththt nobody reads the OP!

well they should, it's like where all the interesting stuff is generally.

I believe, that while commanders shouldn't leave a reward, nor should it make sense that going nuclear from an internal reactor should leave behind a husk...

...gameplay wise it is a good placeholder marker for locating a previous commander. Until some cool *** planet decal is used instead.

Solution: When a commander explodes, he creates a uniquely shaped small-commander-sized crater and leaves behind no husk. Oh, what about a crater with a color-shaded over the texture of the crater, either colored like the color of the explosion or of the commander/team (if not one the other is moddable).

we've managed to put color everywhere else, this will be easy.