New PTE build up

You can always try But now with matchmaking inplace I doubt it will be played much via PAstats matchmaking. Unless you get that system on the official matchmaking ladder

I guess the people who look for "random maps" want a "perfect" automatic map generator that builds maps on the quality level that a human can produce by hand. If that is possible, fine I'd like it.
But the current map generator is.... FAR away from that.
Yes if you add in symmetry it is "balanced". But I can think of a lot of horrible maps that are balanced, but no fun to play. That map generator has much more to do than generated a balance random map, it has to generate a balanced, random, FUN map. And fun is something very hard to teach to a computer.

It's been months. On PAstats alone, that's thousands of games. There is no excuse for NOT having solved this balance problem.

Fun is something that stems from the gameplay, not the map. The gameplay should allow for some irregularities in maps so we aren't running around with tiny rulers measuring the distance between individual mex for balance.

And yes, that is a pretty accurate description of what would be ideal. Perfection, or something close to it. I can see some ways to achieve a result similar to what would be necessary. Problem is, all the shortcuts taken in the code would mean that the maps would have a finite randomness - that is, once you've seen all the Map AIs tricks, you've seen them all. Which is why I say it's rather far fetched.

Let's take that to the extreme. Screw maps. Random balance!
Let's demand a balance generator that produces a perfect balance by generating some random unit stats and gives every player the exact same units. So symmetry is used to make sure it is balanced, everyone has the same units available.

<sarcasm>I am sure that is gonna be fun! </sarcasm>

If the map is unimportant for the fun of the game we should all play on a perfectly mex balanced sandbox biome.

That's general the solution.
Uber? Make a perfect PA!

THAT'S WHY ITS SO FAR FETCHED. DO YOU READ?

Also, you are taking it to the extreme. Gameplay first, map second. Balance first, symmetrical maps second. How hard is this?

I'd say it is far fetched to get the map generator you want any time soon.
Symmetry will make it balanced, yes. But I am sure it will still generate quite a lot "meh" maps gameplay-wise.
The map and the gameplay (balance) are quite connect with each other. Considering them separate from each other doesn't work.

Never said we should.

And AGAIN. I SAID ALL THIS ALREADY

DO YOU READ?

You're being very rude.

I'm trying to understand why he keeps repeating all of my own points back to me, after changing one of them to an absolute. Forgive me if I get frustrated with someone trying to derail my argument on technicalities. Explain, don't dance. This isn't a dance.

I understand that you get a bit annoyed when you can't get your point across, but that is no reason to use caps and ask a unnecesarry questions. If you're angry hit a wall or something, don't spill it over the community And maybe you should watch yourself first, before attacking others. You could maybe write your post different so that there is a 100% chance that he will get the point. (So that he does not derail the already derailed discussion). Just love peace and all (rant over).

I don't get me wrong ^^ I Agree its due time that a new balance patch hits the floor. But just keep in mind. Even if they fixed all the balance problems in the next update. The problem will still not be fixed. See how that is contradicting, but it is true. Because after a new balance pass, how close to perfect it is, A new meta will rise and new problems can slowly surface from the deep deep below..

But back to the your point.. Yes I agree that it is time for a good update on balance.

(talking about games in general): Gameplay and map go hand in hand, there cant be a first or second. They are both equally important. In PA map is to a lesser extend important but is still immensly important to gameplay.

I am not asking for perfection. I wouldn't ask from these guys what I couldn't do myself. And I CANNOT create the perfect balance. I tried. It's not perfect. It's a good balance with a solid foundation, but it is by no means perfect.

Sorry. I've been angry lately and I need to get back to thinking more than I bang my keyboard.

Is it bad that that sounds like a little fun to me?...

I mean not competitive, but something to do when you're like "man, I'm bored... Randomized balance mod- hoh!" Then discover the meta as you play on a completely random balance! XD

Edit: We should be able to do this, no? I'd love to see a random number generator that formats all .json files numbers differently and randomly each time I execute the script.

It would need to be an external program that you run before starting PA and hosting a game. You could do it though!

I might ask cola to help, because I know he's done similar scripts in the past (only not random).. and because I wouldn't know how.

Basically I'd imagine it's just locate stats in all units across the board and make random changes, possibly under some constraint if possible. (So I don't end up with a tank moving at 3000 speed and firing nukes while a bot wobbles around the map and can't turn, and it's weapon fires 50 times a second.

Edit: sorry for off-topic btw, it just intrigued me.

Now that would be interesting.


But crazy.