Assassin lunge discussion

Kd raio is NOT the problem with sins, they are not OP because they can ROFLSTOMP anyone. They are OP for 3 very specific reasons.

1) killing bots without being a target (from cloak lunge into group, 2 swipes, lunge out and recloak) there is NOTHING 1 or even 2 people can do to stop you, if you try and fight the pros you'll die, but if you just clear bots.. good god you are unstoppable..

Same could be said for sniper, but the sniper is exposed on his purche, and open to attack, unless sniping from base, and if hes sniping from base, hes only defending not pushing, an assassin can defend or push eaually, especially after level 3 cloakd and dash.

2) Key Pro kills, forget 50 and 1 KD/Ratios.. who cares.. I'm talking about the ability to pick a single target on the battle field and kill them at will with a back grapple and some patience. wait a few seconds in cloak outside of audible range, and as SOON as they start firing on something else, bam they are dead.. now just look at scoreboard, who has a huge KD/RATIO.. kill him, cause he probably has or is close to juice.

3) You cant kill them.. if they dont wanna die, they DONT.. the only time a sin dies, is when he is an idiot, or decides to go for the kill at the expense of his own life.. smokebomb is rediculously effective and lunge is an amazing tool for escape.. this plus cloak, makes it hard to stop their juice rush, meaning they (a class that already gains juice at an incredible rate) are also the one class most likely to never be WTF headshot/backstabbed and loose their juice..


Add in, insande dmg reduction during a grapple, and the fact that I sware that damage reduction lasts about 2 seconds AFTER A GRAPPLE, and they are nearly untouchable..

they can kil a deployed gold armored tank in 2 second from distance, thanks to the fact that shruikiens 100% crit if used from cloak, and can be clip emptied in 1 second..

infact they instant kill any class standing still for more than a second..

they arent op pro hunters, they are OP everythign elese.

:| ...
What's next? Gunner is OP because they can hover and use the minigun at the same time? Or better yet, Gunner is OP because they have a doublebarrel-minigun?
Although I agree on the ability to single-handedly down a moneyball at will but that's something else.

Yeah well done on stomping people who are new and aren't very good at the game. That's a sure way to make them stay and continue playing.

nothing you say has any validity..

how is a gunners minigun while hovering the same as the ability to down bot waves in 2 seconds, while uncloaked for only those 2 seconds, and the abilty to smokebomb jump away into cloak if exposed..

combined with the ability kill more turrets in a juice than any other class (thanks to lunging between them) and the money ball nearly solo..

and to keep juice.. and to blah blah blah you addressed NOTHING I SAID.. you just said wahts next OP gunner blah mini blah I have nohting to say blah so i'm just spitting out jibberish blah..

useless..

Arguing balance on a game forum, is like arguing equal rights at a Klan ralley..

You willl NEVER see my point, and I will never agree with you.. I have no need in my life to be seen as a PRO by the forums, and so no care for what you think about me, I will speak my piece regardless for the good of the game..

The only difference between you and I, is that when I speak about an issue, I use fact instead of jibberish.

I hope you've let out all the frustration i've caused you now!

yup feel much better now..

Look SIN is not OP in the sense that nothing can stop him, but a skilled player can do WAY more for a match as a sin, than any other class.. and thats the problem.. its to the point where NOT having a sin on your team when there is a decent one on the other team.. regardless of how much better your gunners/tanks/assaults are.. can spell defeat..

that says something for the class right there.. a good sin can push a lane undetected and faster than anything else.. they can camp bot spawners.. and sure the team will eventually notice but not beofore you've built up 3/4 to a full juice bar.. and youll just smoke bomb away.. and come back in 30 seconds with uber..

building uber is easy as is, right now the only threat to loosing it as many class's is death that comes unexpected, and sins never get jumped unexpectidly, they almost always see it coming or have time to react.. even when groups jump them..

that plus quick juice gain = omg.. my base is gone.. and there was nothing i can do abou it.. you can try and CC them.. during juice runs.. but you pretty much need an assault for that, because a good is is lunging from one turret to the next.. and they go down fast..

hell krit shruikiens from cloak kill turrets faster than just about anything non juiced.. your base and bots are never safe.. and if you come out alone to get them.. you are gonna die.. unless you get lucky, or theyll just run away to other side of the base and start again..

Let me just give you a neutral tip, I want to end this hostile atmosphere...

Did you ever try to CC juiced sins with a Shave Ice tower? If you have a support that hacks it to 3.3 level the radius is HUGE and drains a lot of the speed and movement from the assassin. I'm not sure how well this works against somebody who plays assassin exclusively and is good at it, but so far it has prevented most juice attacks i've experienced combined with me CC'ing the enemy by grappling them. At least it gives you time to CC them, slower moving targets are easier to grapple rather than the lightning speed of the assassin who is not affected by any slowdown measure.

If I see a shave ice turret, I have to either risk it (which is stupid, because the shave ice will be detrimental) or waste time trying to get rid of it (which, you know, wastes my time).

Also, is anyone bothering to escort your bots, tiny, when you brought up the sin's ability to demolish bot lanes?

LUNGE > Ice tower..

that is the problem, he can LUNGE from one turret to the next, meaning he travels instantly, is immune to slowdown and grapples during the lunge.. and most good sins will take out the shaved ice tower first. since its the priority target for getting bots INTO and onto the money ball.

ONCE again, its a great strategy that helps to deter juice rushes from any class but SIN.. that is kinda my point, the nature of sin

dash - Cloak - lunge - smokebomb - reduced dmg in grapple

those things make him nearly impossible to deter from his job, if he wants to kill bots he will, even if you sit on the bots he can shrukien them in seconds.. if he has juice your base is done.. you can kiss at a minimum 2 turrets good bye, he wont pop juice and RUN IN, he will stealth in and pop juice right ontop of the first turret, and hell wait till pros arent near it. soon as its down hes lunged ot the next .. if you have REALLY fast reaction time you can stop him after the 2nd turret is down.. and you kinda wanna be an assault for that Lunge grapple is good there..

every other class has to walk in and juice.. (maybe assault can charge in from the air) only sin can cloak walk right into perfect position.. thats a HUGE advantage.. same goes for pushing money ball down when shields drop, or in OT.. he can get into perfect position with no opposition than deal huge damage..

Smoke bomb from high ground into cloak land on shave dice and kill it first.. its a priority not a waist of time, shaved ice can stop bots from ever getting to money ball to drop shields, I target them over anything else as a sin or assault anyways.. just smoke bomb jump to it so you arent given away early.. and juice right on top of it.

and escorting bots (1 person) if its not a tank will get back stabbed, or hell simply shrukien the bots from distance.. shruikiens do insane bot damage.. so hes still clearing bot lanes.

and if its 2 people pushing.. one with bots one on point, thats a 2 v 1.. hardly an argument..

Shrukiens kill bots faster than greandes from ASSAULT even with lvl a gold ROF on the assault. and they crit from stealth 100% of the time.. SINS have more than a sword..

one way to balance it is to make the sin do less damage to bots and turrets, or do less damage to players. No class is extremely good at doing one or the other except for the assasin. Or make the sword do way less damage to bots and turrets, but still keep the damage on players and have the shurikens do way less damage to pros and more on bots and turrets. As of right now you use either weapon + the speed sins have = win

also the shuriken bounce/rof is a little ridiculous

Sorry, I'll rephrase my waste of time wording. I meant it slows you down a bit. Time is a commodity, and even if you argue it barely uses up anytime on the assassin's part (sounds like it anyways) I still think anytime spent diverted to the shave ice, being the most armored turret in the game, is still something to consider.

And I don't think shurikens do decent enough bot damage compared to the sword.

Anyways, I don't think you're giving assaults and gunners enough credit (well, slightly less credit to the gunner).

I don't know about you but if nothing is happening to me while escorting bots, I look around and bunnyhop simply because nothing is happening.

yes but killing the shaved ice is my point? Its one of the best turrets in the game IMO, a hacked lvl 3 is amazing at stopping assaults, but not from the sin, he can lunge even if it cathes him and drop it FAST.. thats one turret nub down, and the most useful turret next to rocket is now gone.. I mean saying the shave ice is super important, is true, but I say that its importance makes it a target.. the problem is most class's juiced take way longer to get to it to kill it, and it slows them down if they ignore it.

as sin can lunge to it or smoke bomb jump to it before hitting juice take it out and continue, or ignore it and use lunge spam to negotaiate his way between other turrets.. This plus his ability to start juice ANYWHERE, unlike anyone else who you see coming and often times force to pop juice early with concentrated fire..

and I think u arent cloaking when you use shrukiens, it makes the 100% crit.. once you realize that youll see how much insane dmg they can do.. give it a try than youll see what I mean..

Was going to bring this up.
For a "bot killing class" it sure does EVERYTHING exceedingly well when you're good with it.

The skill argument doesn't apply because other classes have weaknesses skill cannot make up for to anything of a degree like the Assassin.

Cut her damage to players because as it stands while the philosophy behind it might have been "bot killer" it does "player rapist" far too well in the hands of a skilled one.

ATM she is the definition of having her cake and eating it too.

Try sticking together with your team if you feel the assassin is killing you too much.

so always fight assassin 3 v 1? Got it.. yup thats a balanced class..

even then by the way... back grapple and guess what.. shell get away..


that would be fine, if she wasnt also a beast at killing bots, turrets and money ball, and avoiding fights when needed.. IE: trying to get to the money ball.

... :|
Tinygod, I suggest you stop going back to the "Oh so I have to gang up on people to kill them? WHOOPIEYAY how fun...Super Balanced indeed...".

Before you do this again oh I bet you will somewhere, I want you to do this:

Balance the game.

It is still going to be Monday Night Combat.
It is still going to be the same maps.
It is still going to be the same amount of classes.
Detail every class skill, strength and purpose.
Also detail their background.
But YOU are going to balance the whole game.
You are going to create the damage formula's and character stats for all the classes.
Then after you've done that, you're going to balance every class so that if you put them all on each side of a weight, they would not weigh each other out.

This is no easy task to do when you have six different classes in the game.

If you accept the challenge, then I am excited and hope to see good results!
If you don't well... You're not really missing out on anything. Just give it a thought.

Reasons for this:
You seem to be ... Apologies for the term 'whining' here but it's appropriate; about the classes and how unbalanced they are in this game. Majority of the people on the forums view the classes as fine as they are, while once in a while there is the 1-2-3 people on the forums who disagree and want everything or something changed.

If you can indeed balance all the classes out despite their different purposes in the game and how they would be able to achieve those purposes without being super advanced or difficult to understand, kudos to you.

Otherwise, let the devs do their job, they're surely looking at class balance already as the game has only been out for a month.

Well, I've contributed all I felt I could I think.

I still have fun with the game most of the time. Do you?

I don't know what you think the forums are for man.. the devs wouldnt be aware of these imbalances if they werent brought up in the forums. Its like saying I shouldnt bug report if I cant fix the bug?

also, ive offered several suggestions, that dont alter the entire game

1) make lunge place a delay on grapple
2) reduce dmg reduction while grappling

done.. now shes not as good at killing pros (though still capable) and that has no effect on her ability to kill bots..

Seriously though you keep saying the majority of people dont agree she needs tweaking.. but i keep seeing about even numbers on both sides.. maybe someone should take the time to dig though 45 pages and count the names and votes..

Also the forums tend to be populated more with elitists than average pub players..
if you really want the numbers, the devs could patch the game with a quick vote on next start up that would take every person who plays the game and let them answer yes or no to do you think Sin/sniper/gunner etc is over powered.. underpowered or just right.. etc etc..

Nope, it's nothing like that. Nobody but Uber knows what they were, and still are trying to accomplish with Monday Night Combat, so balance is all relative to what they believe is balance. Not you, me or anyone else. Them

I'm pretty sure that if this breaks their design they will fix/change/whatever it, but until then this is the game that you have, so if you want to be good at it i suggest that you learn to adapt to every situation that is giving you problems.