Ideas on how to balance the sniper

this is STILL going......wow.....

Sounds like you're suffering from a typical case of playing on a pub against incompetent opponents. Assaults getting killed by a sniper do not use their bombs correctly nor their skills to their full potential. Gunners? I understand they're stupidly slow and stupidly easy to headshot, but even they can be hard to hit in the hands of a competent player. I'm not going to mention names, but I played against an assault who also played gunner last night, and I didn't get many kills on him as he was quite aware how to move his head from left to right to avoid my aim and every time the bullet just barely missed his head, still body shots didnt kill him as he was really quick to find cover. He went sniper and tried to counter me later, didnt prove very useful as I tend to avoid sniper duels and instead focus on bots and lane pushing, as he was actively hunting me I didn't really see much point taking him out as long as I could avoid getting hit.

Later he went assault, and damn did he show how to play one. I hate to say this but I stood NO chance to hit him, only hits I got on him were bodyshots, whenever I thought I DIDNT run into a bomb since he had just detonated one, I ended up still getting ringed out on G3 due to a bomb out of nowhere. It was like being hunted by ghost bombs. I still got to focus on other players though by avoiding him, and him actively hunting me and spawn camping our base I most of the time ignored him knowing I wouldnt be able to kill him as he was damn quick to charge away should trouble arise. I got ONE kill on him on Grenade three, and that was when he activated an Ejector, for one second he was stand-still and that was the second I finally got him ONCE. The rest of his team was no sweat, they were mostly standard pub-players who doesn't know what they're doing yet, all except this guy. Naturally I have a K/D around 50-(0-9 deaths) when I play sniper, but against this guy I proved NO challenge as the bombs and grenades those assaults are capable of spitting out every second RAVAGES a sniper and probably most other classes as well.

That's an example what players can accomplish if they know how to play and how to exploit their class to the max. Granted the assault naturally owns the sniper due to their mobility and Grenade Launcher + Bombs + Charge.

No, because I don't want the class to be removed or anything remotely harsh, I don't want the concept of glass artillery to change because the general idea of that is balanced with other classes. The Sniper requires in my opinion some slight technical changes which will diminish the absurd situations as WylieTimes has just described. I barely touched the Sniper in this game, yet achieved 21 headshots in 29 total rifle kills - in 2 games, standing in the base. Come on.

so the only class in the game that stands a chance (assault) played buy a MUCH better player, got you 9 times, out of the 50 kills you scored?

.......

Someone says hey I own as snpier, you say Yeah you were playing against bad players.

Someone says hey I get owned as sniper, you say yeah see snipers are fine


LOL


Players are only good, when it benefits your arguement. People are bad or playign bad players when it does not.

Snipers figthing in the open alone can be killed.. snipers on mid size maps, fighting from base, surrounded by turrets and bots pushing out plus pros = un approcahable, and yet they can reach out and kill you no problem.. I get that thats the nature of the class, but its OP in this type of game..

You have an OBJECTIVE you HAVE TO PUSH TO, and a class that can sit ON THAT OBJECTIVE totaly protected and snipe anything that comes near..

Bad snipers are still more effective than a bad ANY OTHER CLASS..

I think they need something to limit their ability to capitolize on missed shots..

High ROF and no recoil = a bit much.. its not easy to fix because you dont wanna take a good snipers ability to kill bots.. so leave it to the devs.. its obvious they know this needs addressing, its more obvious by the fact no one can give a good fix, that they are probably as stumped as we are, on the topic.

Yeah... You obviously only read half of it.

I said USUALLY I am able to get such a K/D on pubs, but not that round because I was constantly held in check by that assault. That's my point. And you seriously got to change your views on who is able to fight against snipers, as assaults are NOT the only class that stands a chance, it's all depending on the player.

bbl, got practice.

*I have not read any of this discussion, I'm just posting a probably mentioned idea. Deal with it.

Make the sniper not hitscan?

I like the complete reversal of skill levels when I'm using my playing experience to explain some situations - as another poster said,
If I'm having trouble countering a good Sniper, I'm bad.
If I'm completely dominating opponent teams with quickscoping, they're bad.

Exactly as the previous poster said, all you guys are doing is just assuming discrepency of skill to suits yourselves, to avoid the argument.

I assure you, the vast majority of these kills were unstoppable - most were on players who had only stuck their heads out for mere seconds, or who were moving from one cover to another.
Also, I knew a few players from the enemy team very well (we play nearly every night) and they are some of the best players I've played against. The average level of the enemy team was about 50. (There was one 30 and a 75, amongst 40s and 50s).

This was not a case of a bad team.

See, this is what everyone in this thread has used as their main point - but I have yet to see how this assortment of traits in a class is a true counter to the Sniper, who can easily kill it with a single, accurate, quick shot (especially as the Assault slows down greatly when flying, which he often needs to do to get around Ice Traps).
Everyone uses it as a pretense - but it has never been proven.

It's similar to if I assumed/pretended that Team Uber had stated that the Sniper is overpowered 2 weeks ago, and used that in all of my arguments.

Stop using a pretense as proof.

They like sniping, and wont admit its OP.. get used to it.. they backpeddle change their statements when asked to give direct proof.. and if pressed too hard will simply call you a noob.. and say the reason snipers kill you, is that you are bad at the game..


Truth is assault is not a counter to sniper, hes simply the ONE class that has a chance, well him and assassin


really good assaults and assasssin can kill mediocre snipers.. the problem is that they cant kill really good ones..Mediocre snipers spit all over good gunners and supports and even good tanks (unles the tank is just playing hide and seak and packing gold armor)

Most snipers assume they are good, and that when you say "really good sniper" you are refering to them.. its ego getting in the way of seeing the argument clearly. IT goes like this.


1) They assumes they are a terrific sniper
2) We say terrific snipers are OP, as they take full advantage of the class.
3) We say terrific snipers spit all over gunners, tanks, support, and while they dont easily kill assaults and sins (because of mobility) they are NOT countered by them either, they simply leave eachother alone..
4) They login, snipe for a while and meet a "terrific" assault, he does 100 things right, they do 100 things wrong, and he gets the upper hand over and over again.
5) they come here and say no terrific snipers are countered by terrific assaults, learn to play.

They problem is "they arent terrific snipers".. but no matter what we say they wont believe that.. they will say "you arent terrifc assaults" blah blah and the cycle continues..

truth is neither of us know for sure either way... thats not really the issue..

the issue is take two mediocre players give one sniper and one assault and watch what happens.. its a blood bath.. same for sniper and any other class.. and i believe the same is true at any level of skill if the skill levels are equal..

snipers have far too many tools and bonus's.

1) no recoil
2) fast rate of fire
3) moderate reload speed
4) flak (area denial)
5) freeze traps (roots, multiple)
6) no delay between non scope to scope (quick scopes)
7) decent body shot damage
8) high bot killing capabilities
9) AOE attached to a freaking sniper round (...)
10) a grapple from their primary weapon (not even required to weapon switch to do grapples, like say an assault is (until he gets lvl 3 charge or a gunner is)
11) ability to fight from the objective (that we must approach) or to fire INTO the objective that we must defend. both from moderate safety, depending on the way the match is going. Though offence is harder than defence.
12) earns cash and juice quickly (arguably quicker than any other class for money, and 3rd fastest from juice.. and does so from safe distances.. allowin early game progression to be a huge advantage for the class..


I could keep going, but I could also make a list like that for any class.. the problem is .. any other class can't reach across the map and deal damage.. only tank and gunner, and neither of theirs are hitscan, they are not spamable without ROF upgrades, and easily dodged

So if I said I managed to get 50 kills as a support would that make the support OP as well? :|

Is the sniper hitscan? The sniper rifle bullet seem to have a set speed (if it didn't sniping would be far easier...)...

no.. no set speed..

pull the trigger when you have crosshair on their head and its a headshot.. this is part of the many reasons hes too easy to use.

the sniper atleast has to aim.. friking assaults with there bombs and super uber duper charge

are you guys aware that some assaults don't even shoot ?

bomb has a range it can be thrown at, and its not spammable..and charge can be avoided by JUMPING after level 3 upgrade it does no dmg unless the grapple lands..

and snipers ONE SHOT people..

but yeah assault is a very powerful class If I had to tier players from top to bottom

Killing pros: (this is over all, tank for instance can murder players if they throw them selves at him, and Assassin can kill just about ANYONE he wants, if hes trying to)

Sniper
Assault/Gunner
Assassin
Tank/Support

Killing Bots:

Assassin/Tank
Sniper
assault
Support/gunner

Actually mattering to game victories

Assassin
support
Assault
Rest

So your impression of game victories is having more assassins supports and assaults on the team excluding tanks gunners and snipers? :|
And to your information bomb can be spammed if you throw out one, let it charge up again, detonate the old one and throw out a new one right after you detonated the first and they take less than 15 seconds to cool down. That's pretty much as spammable as a skill can become. :|
Assaults also have insane survivability with their fly + charge combo, first sign of danger, CHARGE TO COVER! and not in a random direction that will get you shot.
I tried assault today and managed to get 21 kills and zero deaths in a 3 vs 3 match, it was simply that easy. :|

Then why do I have to predict and aim before the enemy when he's moving perpendicularly to me? :shock:

1) you need good players, but those 3 class's have the most direct impact on a match being over before OT

Assassin: to kill bots/push lanes and whipe defenses
Support to keep gunners/tanks/assaults over charged, and to establish control of key posititions, not to mention well timed airstrikes..
Assaults: because their mobility and fllexibility allows them to change lanes quickly and adapt to whats happening, are pros clearing bots there, he can fight them, are bot waves coming, he can kill bots.. he does neither of those better than say assassin or sniper for bots, or gunner/tank for pros.. but he does both well.. and thats huge.. his ability to flex and change strategies mid game often wins games.

So yes, I am saying those 3 are more key than another class.. IE: having more than one of them, doesnt hurt you the same way having 2 gunners in a 6 man team does..

2) You think throwing one bomb, leaving it there for 15 seconds than blowing it up and tossing another one is spammable? That is the very opposite of spam.. WTF do you think spam means?

you spam mortars, you spam airstrikes (3 in a row all hit at about the same time) you spam nades.. you cant spam a skill with 15 second cooldown.. regardless of being able to have one out..

the only times the fact that it recharges while one is out is useful are:

1) preping for a bomb jump over a wall to assault a position
2) fighiting someone and you missed with a bomb, and hoping they runinto the radius before the next one is ready
3) leaving it on the money ball, as you fall back, to ensure the timer doesnt reset (blowing it up after 20 seconds)


you really have nothing to say ever, you just spit out jibberish..

habit.. and the fact that its a little easier to land a shot than you think, the hitscan seems to be quite large (larger than you would think the bullet is)

trust me, theres no time delay.. no leading.. you are simply firing a little to the right of their head, and it is STILL counting as a head shot..

that has been a primary argument throughout this thread.. its easier to land headshots than people think..

it could be lag compensation, hitscan size, or just plain large hitboxes.. its hard to be sure without the sdk..

but regardless

Search your heart Arcanum.. you know it to be true..

You guys are still arguing in this topic? :lol:

You're missing my point again.
Yeah, trying to be reasonable doesn't work... Doesn't hurt to try though.

Your point:
Sniper is OP. Nerf it.

My Point:
Sniper is OP in the hands of a good player, just like every other class who knows how to play.

I've given examples of assaults specially falling into this category as I played against a damn good one last night but you seemed to ignore that fact, for one of two reasons:
A) I am not considered a good sniper by you and you probably thought I just got owned like any other rate of fire sniper.

B) You don't believe other classes can be used to achieve dominance over the map unless it's a sniper.

Which in case both statements are wrong.
Well only you and everyone else can be the judge of A), I won't really consider myself good before somebody confirms i'm average.

I'm speaking jibberish because you deny to see facts that you can't argue against. Me and a lot of other people in this thread has provided the same point, but you still argue against it saying it's wrong and it should be nerfed so that other players still new to the game playing the other classes and not playing them correctly are given a larger chance of survival. And that's the typical "This thing is OP. NERF IT" opinion we find rather often on these forums, and the game is only in it's second month.

Not surprisingly, we still are! :lol: