Ideas on how to balance the sniper

I think these whiners are closet grimbar fanboys or something. Grimbar, you made a nice sniper guide, how about making a gameplay vid of a scrim and shut these guys up.

Agreed, I argue the following.

1) control from xbox to pc is drastically different
2) they built sniper around Xbox
3) they were not accounting for:
A) how fast a mouse can move a crosshair to a target
B) how smooth and precise a 3000dpi mouse can be under the hands of a skilled person.

To combat those issues on xbox, they made the hitscan very large, its not nesseceritly the size of the hit box for a pros head.. its more likely the size of the.. how do I word this.. ok let me first break it down.

Hit-scan weapon: think of a lazer beam, that fires instantly, its all about crosshair placement, nothing else comes into the equation.. if your crosshair is on the hit box, its a hit.
Projective weapon: This is a true projectile think about a rock, it travels the distance, based on ITS established speed, and so the user must accomodate for its speed, its traveling distance, and the targets current movement direction and speed. MUCH HARDER.

Now I THINK (key word) the problem is that the hitscan is too large, when ever it sends out the laser, (scans for a hit) to determine where a shot is placed, the laser it is sending out is VERY LARGE, compared to what a normal sniper bullet would be. When I snipe it feels as if the hitscan is like 3/4 the size of a pros head.

Well at first that doesnt sound that bad, but think about it, you can be 3/4 of a head size completely off the very edge of a pros head, and it will still register as if you hit him dead center of the head.. thats a pretty large margin of error for a weapon that has no flight time to correct for..


They also incresed rate of fire, to allow for missed shots.. which than made sniper into a bot killing machine, but that is FINE.. I don't wanna change that. He needs that.

I JUST WANNA SEE them tone down the size of the hitscan (or if i'm incorrect the hit box) one of them is far too large, I just seriously doubt its the hitbox because thats very obvious.

Aside from that I have no problem with anyone here, I know grim knows his stuff, so do you.. but I dislike that you choose to take this highground unapproachable argument, where u claim things are balanced in competitive play. When the truth is, at best you guys are scrimming with friends (even if you consider those guys to be real pros) its not the same..

... If that were true I would never miss a headshot. :|
However I frequently do whenever I see a free-kill(Stand-still Targets) and the bullet just BARELY hits the ear, and its not counted as a headshot.
And I don't see why you complain so much if it's easy to headshot people. Other people like me find headshotting extremely difficult, if it's so easy to headshot then what's the problem? You should be happy you are above average but no you want to nerf yourself and the other players already having difficulties landing headshots?

Let's say:
One newbie sniper is on average a 20 kills every round.
You are not a newbie sniper, you are a pro and get 50+ a round.
You want to nerf yourself by 50% and that leaves your average kill score at 25.
At the same time you are nerfing the newbie sniper a lot more than 50% considering he doesn't have the tracking ability you do, and that leaves him with probably less than 10 kills a round, ultimately making the sniper unwelcoming for new players to try out.

To be honest, you sound like you don't know what you're talking about since what you're describing is vastly different from my experiences as a sniper. You just sound like you get shot in the head a lot.

Can't we just end this thread already? The devs do what they feel the need to do. :|

man your logic is just flawless.

Thank You

Firstly, if you are missing on a stationary target, than yes you are correct you are a newbie sniper.. thats not an insult, its just fact.

you probably have a subpar mouse, or more likely a subpar mouse gliding surface (most times you miss stationary shots, it is the surface you are using) that causes crosshair disalignement, IE: the laser is reading movement due to inconsistancies in the surface (magazines, tops of desks, poor hard plastic mouse pads), or mico movements on the mouse (soft mouse pads do this alot, very very minimalistic sinkings of the mouse, when your hand is weighted to one side).

I dont say those things to brag, i say them to show you the level of thought that can actually go into competitive sniping in video games.. Im talking 300 dollar mouse setups, swaping out mousepads every 3 months, using laser levels on your desk to ensure the pad is even.. adjusting counter weights inside the mouse down to the OUNCE, triming springs on mouse buttons, or flat out replacing them.. it can get pretty intense at the actual PRO levels (were talking paid pros, not simply tournament players), but those levels of detail very all the way down to the average player.

I use a very nice mouse, with very specific dpi settings (I dont snipe or play much competitive FPS any more but I did all though I did not snipe much back than either.. only a bit in CS in TF2 I was a soldier mainly, and an off scout.. and before that games werent about class's and I have never played any level of the COD leagues, I actualy quite dispise those games) I got used to a very specific DPI, and feel, so i still use that mouse set up, but i'm not swaping out mouse pads ( I use a high end game pad) but its old, and the desk is probably not super level. I surely dont screw around with counter weights..

OK with all that said, let me say this.

ALL those things effect very little, but a little adds up to a lot when its a lot of littles lol.

but things like mouse pad are HUGE.. what type do you use? also how much do you practice?

I don't miss stationary shots, I seldom miss shots on players who are running, I yank a few on jumping players and charge skills are hard to account for of course. And truth told I've been focusing on assault more than sniper in this game.. But when I do snipe I see a lot of problems.. You may not be good enough to see them, if you are missing frequently.. but if thats the case, that you really have no idea what i'm talking about.

There is a reason, quake 3 was about getting to the railgun.. and the sniper in MNC is essentially using a Quake 3 railgun, only worse. it has a real scope..

Again, if you are unable to do as well as others at sniper, that is not a reason to say sniper is fine.. I mean if you miss staionary shots, and score more than 10 points in a round, that is already saying something about how easy it is..

hint.. its TOO easy.. and we cant leave it alone, just because you arent good at it.. I'm really good at it, and there are MANY players better than me out there.. MANY MAN and they are MUCH MUCH better.

Okay first:
Did you just call me a bad player without ever having seen me in a match while promoting your own skills as superior? :| Some arrogance you got there.

To answer your question:
My computer mice: Mx 518 http://myego.cz/img/razer-logitech/mx518.jpg
My mouse-pad: Steel Series QcK: http://pinnacle.improweb.com/ProdImg/Big_SS-63004.jpg

How much I practice:
Whenever I play sniper. I'm also rather casual.

What are you talking about? Being able to hit the back of the head? The head has a 360 degree hit acceptance, but the actual hitbox just covers the head. You don't get headshots for hitting the neck or beside the head or anything. Hitting the back of the head is hitting the head.

Secondly, there is a lot that a lot of classes can do to overwhelm snipers and/or nullify sniper's perspective.

Thirdly, a sniper can do a lot of things. Most players can not do a lot of things. Grimbar is considered good, and he can not do any of the things you say a sniper could possibly do. A gunner could mortar pretty much anything on the map if they fire in the air and the mortars drop right, but it doesn't mean its actually logical that you will ever see it done. Snipers could use a delay time between scope accuracy, maybe a more recoil feel after shots. Snipers are too weak to get an actual rate nerf though, and if a sniper is made useless for bots, pros, turrets, and moneyball, then gunners will become overpowered.

So whatever happens, remember that the sniper's Rate of Fire isnt ridiculous. It's necessary, because I can't win because of how many inches I have, and neither can I for getting more kills. More kills donesn't mean a class is balanced. Whatever the sniper gets to counter his instant accuracy should only affect his accuracy and accuracy speed, not his ability to kill bots and zone.

It does look REALLY weird when you headshot a tank from behind. I mean, what's that huge hump of armor for anyway?

I called you a newbie sniper, not a bad player, and I made sure to point out it wasnt an insult..

If u miss headshots on stationary targets you arent a good sniper.. thats kinda un debatable.

of course not..

but dont assume getting kills doesnt win games.

how many times have you died at 80% juice? Or while in a position to clear a turret.. FARMING KILLS doesnt win games to an extent, but snipers get a lot of KEY kills, on unsuspecting players, who assume he cant possibly headshot me from that distance if i dash out.. oh bam.. i'm dead.

anyways..

agreed cant take away his ability to killbots and zone, but you should take away some of his ability to WTF headshot.. now that PC controls are being used.

WOW tripple post error lol

Woop there is is again.. tripple post error

i endorse this statement, although i am not up to date in the argument. i just really thought that this was very accurate

You better pick your words with care, as even though you made sure it was not meant as an insult the way you said it while promoting your own skills as superior over mine had me offended. You compare me to yourself putting me bellow you, and you never even ever saw me play. That just downright annoys me. Words are things that can be put into text, text can be altered and changed, if I changed my earlier statement of frequently missing stationary targets to always hitting stationary targets would that change your assumption of me as a bad sniper? Nope, because the first word has already been said and that's definite. Earlier I was comparing headshotting as a difficult thing for snipers to pull off, you say it's downright easy and that people who miss are just bad, and you are promoting the sniper class as being super easy to play and still you want to nerf it. Why do people pick other classes over the sniper? Perhaps its not their thing, perhaps they dont have the skills required, and in those cases it's the latter. Those who do pick sniper are people who either is really good at it or just likes the class, those who are good at it earned the right to be that good and should not be punished for it. If they can shut down a lane, pick the other one. If they can shut down both lanes, oh then I guess it's either a matter of teamwork or skill between two snipers. If you can't match up to the other snipers skill, too bad he's better than you, and you have to learn to deal with that and stop asking for a nerf because godly sniper shots occur from time to time. Same goes for any other class, put up an assault against an assault, the other assault get's roflstomped while the other waves the flag of triumph because he has the skill to play the class properly and even though me appears godlike with zero deaths, effective lane pushing and a 30+ Killcount, do we ask him to get nerfed? No we'll just have to accept that he is a better player.

Yeah this is what comes out of this thread, nothing. The point being: "Good players are too good and have it to easy to shoot my head! NERF PLZX!" the conclusion being: That's completely up to the devs to decide whether they want to listen to whineposts or not.

...

Obviously, because that's his job perhaps? :|
If a player manages to get consequent key-kills on the enemy it's due to one thing:
The player is damn aware of the arena and the tide of the round, and he is one hell of a shot while knowing which spots he can lead a bullet through a tiny gap and still get a kill. This defines something called "PLAYER SKILL" and a skilled player will always be bashed for being better and quite frequently be told and assured that he is a "No-Life Nerd".

I'm sorry all I can think about when I ready your posts is the fact that you said you miss stationary head shots all the time, but than got angry when I said I was a better sniper because I do not.

If u were offended, oh well.. but try not to caution me to choose my words better.. as i chose them in a very specific fashion.. I know what I said, and what connotation it held.

I intended to point out that you were a subpar sniper, as it was key to my arguement which is.

IF YOU ARE NOT A GOOD SNIPER, than you dont understand what i'm talking about.. and having no issue with snipers means only that you havent been against a good one..

Enough said

Point proven. :| I gotta pick MY words with more care or they will stick and can NOT be altered.

You know what you said, but the outcome was different, and that doesn't change. I advise you to not compare your skills to the one you are directly speaking with and instead use subject A and subject B instead of specifically subject ME and subject YOU. It avoids these things and misunderstandings in general.

Why would your point be that I am a subpar sniper? There is no point unless you have material to prove it with.

There you go! You used IF! That's more like it. That leaves an open discussion and room for error and empty space to be filled with proof yet to be provided!

I agree, and I hope the same can be said for the rest of the thread.

you need to go back and re-read your posts.

You break your own rules in every one of them

PS: you admit that you said you couldnt hit targets, and that that was a mistake, that get upset that I use that as proof you are a sub-par sniper..

our debate is at an end, its derailed from the point.

You're seriously clutching at straws now.

Although I have to agree that the hitboxes are a little off, needing to hit assassins in the lower half of the head to score a kill can be annoying, make their hitbox bigger please.

And don't even get me started on tank head hitboxes.

Well, just wanted to let you know I had another fun game of MNC as a support, assault, and tank. Plenty of decent assassins and snipers, none were overpowered though. If I find one, i'll be sure to issue an apology :lol: .