SSX snipe intended?

Hi.

Just wanted to vent / share my opinion I guess.

I just got out of a very interesting game. I was a 2v2v2 or something. I fought another commander on my starting planet, and eventually won. My ally did the same. Great start.

Now it was later into the game and I was trying to invade another planet, heavily defended. It took me a long time, but eventually my avenger spam allowed me to create a safe spot into his own orbital space. AH! I immediately started construction of a few anchors, and then eventually (with constant re-inforcement) I achieved orbital control over the planet. Victory was near! All I had to do was t-Game over. What? What the hell happened?

I had to watch the replay to even understand!

The guy sent a few avengers (to distract my umbrellas) and then a lone SSX that basically insta-gibbed my commander. 2 seconds, then the game was over.

That left a very bad taste in my mouth, honestly. Now... Dont tell me that kind of stuff is intented? The fact that the SSX can fire instantly sounds like a bug.

I know you can keep your commander on the move (patrol) to prevent the insta-gibs, but is that really a good solution?

The fact that something like this is even possible is IMO not good for the game.

There's been a lot of discussion about this. Current consensus says that a delay between entering an orbit and activating would be nice, and/or a damage nerf. But right now patrolling is the best defence.

There are lots of major issues with orbital, and this is one.

Umbrellas should target SXX first and ignore the Avengers.

SXX should have a warm up time before being able to fire.

Because right now 5 SXX can insta kill a commander, no matter how well it is defended.

Unless it is moving.

And yeah, really it is good that it can instakill, it can do so to catalysts or halleys or nukes as well. At least commanders can move, structures can't.

I remember seeing something in the patch notes about SXX now being able to hit moving targets, in particular, commanders moving in pelicans. I'm not sure that it works anymore.

Even if a commander in a pelican does still keep it from being killed, that's a pretty poor balance bandaid.

You know, there is still the option to use an Astreus instead of a Pelican. Interplanetary patrol commands don't work, but queuing few dozen movement commands does.

The preview for interplanetary movement commands would indicate an entry sequence, but it isn't in the game yet. Which keeps the Astreus still as invulnerable as the SXX deadly.

Now your commander is very vulnerable to Avengers, unless you queue up a bunch of planet to planet move commands, then the commander is practically invulnerable. Which also is pretty poor balance/mechanics.

"Poor balance"? I would file that as a bug. We currently have 4 large orbital-related exploits out there, all due to that missing reentry sequence:

• Instant SXX snipe, would even still work if the SXX only had 1 HP.
• Invincible commander Astreus exploit. Fully invincible, even if the Astreus did land on an Anchor by chance, since it's leaving the orbit faster than the Anchor or Avenger can aim.
• Invincible energy plants. Did you know that orbital energy plants remain active while in transfer?
• Orbital unit stacking. An enemy with an unmodded client will not be able to tell which units have been stacked, or how many. Happens on factory exit and after orbital insertion. Oh, and also while in transfer...

Two of them are being abused on a regular base. The other two not so much yet (at least not on purpose) since awareness is rather low, but they are still present.

Sometimes the line between balance/mechanics/bugs is very fine.

Yes, sometimes. As with the disproportional acceleration on most units which allows deliberate (theoretically endless) projectile dodging. Or the 4 second charge sequence on the Catalyst which some players think should be more in the range of minutes.

But in this case it's not just a matter of numbers. There is an entire mechanic missing, so there are no number to tweak yet at all. Not even making orbital units even more fragile could help since they are still impossible to hit.

Well it does take 3 shots, 6 seconds to kill a commander with full HP. It takes an umbrella 5 seconds to kill a SXX.

• You should pay attention to incoming orbital
• You should never leave your commander idle in one place and be shocked if he gets sniped
• You should always move your commander if he has just been scouted by an orbital radar

I feel the real problem is that you can put a commander in an air transport and trying to snipe him is basically a very unlikely shot in the dark.

That's like slapping a bandaid on a broken arm. The game needs an extra orbital layer.

Instantaneous and unpreventable scouting and sniping of structures and stationary units is ridiculous and can never be balanced.

Yeah and i'm not sure what could be done besides a somewhat undesirable edge-case nerf to make it so the com can't be transported. Orbital-to-air fighters maybe.

Are we even playing the same game? 3 shots => 3 SXX => 0 seconds to kill. At least that's how the SXX snipe is usually executed. There are no defenses against this, the first SXX shot is GUARANTEED to be executed.

Can't agree with this either. Orbital units should deal respect to the very same rules as every other unit. And that includes not to jump in midle of an enemy base without any warning.

In case you already forgot: There is also no prediction where incoming orbital units are going, so whenever you see something in orbital (which btw. isn't even obvious until it is on the last leg, since orbital paths are indistinguishable) you always have to assume every single point of the planet as threatened.

What if orbital units needed to charge their interplanetary iron drives before setting out?

And arrivals at a planet would need to reset their systems depending on how much power they drain, so units like fighters are really quick to reboot, but the sxx needs a minute to reboot. (Ui implementation necessary).

Then we could balance orbital on not having them warp in and out instantly.

There is a much simpler and intuitive solution:
Prograde and retrograde phases must be executed while inside the orbit, not outside.

This means that every orbital unit has a delay when entering AND exiting a system where it remains vulnerable, plus it has to pass over an area of considerable size, so you can't just jump past the defenses inmiddle of a base.

• Solves the issue of instant incoming jumps
• Solves the issue of instant outgoing jumps
• Solves the issue of targeted, teleport-like jumps

Interesting, if not having complications.

Makes you really really fight for the orbital layer.

Ahh ok yes, so it is in fact 4 seconds for a single SXX.

So you've spent 72k metal on your 3 SXX and you scouted with 5k metal for (at least) 1 advanced orbital radar.

Let's say I immediately move my commander after you scout me (who on earth wouldn't?), giving me ample time to be long gone by the time your SXX arrive. You've just thrown 72k metal down the drain.

Also pray tell, how do you plan to snipe my commander when he is patrolling around in an air transport?

*sigh*

You know about the SXX exploit so you are deliberately choosing to counter the exploit by using a transport. That however is completely counterintuitive for any sane player who doesn't know about the exploit, especially when you consider that you commander is still worth 2 advanced fabbers in build power and efficiency.

^Pretty much.

You should be able to "counter" this by setting up appropriate defenses. Avengers, umbrellas, anchors, etc. Right now they are completely useless against this strategy, and the only thing that work is keeping your commander on the move.


I think this is very poor game mechanics.