Naval Balance Coming?

Also, statera adds enough units to nearly double the old roster, not to mention completely make them feel signature...

Idk, there is balance mods, like statera, and navalredux which is almost statera naval with vanilla pa.

I say this a lot of the threads, but I would understand if they worked on features only they can bring like serverside and savegames, because if you include mods we already do have balance and matchmaking...

I think the Amphibious ability for dox is ok now as they can't shot in water anymore, but we lost the only one unit that build on the land with the ability of anti-ships. Maybe we need some units can be build both in navy factory and bot/vehicle factory with amphibious. But I don't think we can see it before the balance of naval.

One silly way of balance the naval.
First make a mod can allowed naval go onto the land
Second balance them as what we did in balance tanks(should not be this easy right?)

I don't think the dox were the premier anti-naval land unit. At least not intentionally. Intentionally, that is probably the pelter, holkins, torpedo turret (can build on shore), shellers, gil-e, and catapult.

Without the harshness of his post he is right. You have been talking about the dox like you havnt played the patch. Similar to mered who made a post on dox after his tests. Just because raevn doesn't mention that bombers bombs now follow target or dox are no longer as good at shooting down air doesn't mean it hasn't been changed.

Back onto topic. Yes naval could use some love. Try the speed see how that goes.

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/naval-balance-coming.63549/#post-990494

Ok then. Well if you think dox are op and nobody uses air then you are wrong. Was given you the benefit of the doubt but it appears you don't know what you are talking about.

Edit: Nasty habit. Stop replying to texts in here.

If you think I don't know what I'm talking about then you should extrapolate. Explain why air is valid and why you don't think the Dox is OP. I've written on the topic, you should do so as well other than say "you're wrong."

The only instances I've seen people using air is when it gets obliterated.

I also don't think that the dox is OP in the traditional sense of the word. I think the dox is too versatile and too OP during early game and too underpowered in late game, making for unvaried gameplay. I should return to RCBM... so much more variation to gameplay.

What basic ground to air unit is better to make then a dox according to you then if i may ask?

bombers wreck dox, this took me all of 3 minutes to discover after first playing this patch

I'm on my phone so harder to mAke quotes and links and all that. Posted this in mereds thread.

Now: dox early game beats ant.
ant and bomber destroys dox
ant, aa, and bomber is pretty close to dox plus fighter (but dox fighter requires much more apm to make it favorable)

That was before the booms, thinking air and booms beat veh and air now too.

There are many options and this is just t1 units I'm talking about. As @mayhemster says air wrecks groups of dox. 1 bomber can kill 10+ in a couple of passes which give your tanks time to reach the dox before the deathball does too much damage to your expansions. If of course the bomber dies. Dox aa is at the point where it can shoot down moving planes but doesn't do it close to enough to make them good enough aa.

So basically the bomber balances the early game close to perfect. You can build the 3 different factories. Doxes for raiding, early tanks, bombers and fighters for defending your expansions and your attacking units. Few dox with ants to protect them from boom bots.

I also added that if grenadiers were a little stronger it will help the bit factories not be as bad late game.

Spinners kill bombers great mot. You make big wins with just having 2 with your tanks. But in our game, I massed air, I had 5 bombers and 10 fighters, against 2 veh aa and 13 tanks. I had better composition. And force attacked your anti aa. I deserved to win them confrontations.

@brianpurkiss @mot9001

They are still more valuable as AA then a mixxed spinner-ant army in what i have seen.

Well they can't kill fighters and rarely kill bombers. 1 veh aa will kill one bomber in a pass 100% of the time.

I tested it with custard in a cheatgame. HUGE army of dox+boombots against a 200k metal cost army of gunships and fighters. Then i did an equal size army of mixxed vehicles with quite a lot of spinners, but also inferno and ants against another equal airforce and it was way less effective. Also, its not the bombers that are the problem because everyone uses fighter air meatshields as far as i see.

I agree that spinners kill 1 bomber but its the fighter meatshield that makes it useless and you also know you will lose the spinners pretty much always, also i think its quite possible to kill fighters with dox.

Although I am sure you are correct. Had you the same value in aa as dox is the main think. Plus the amount of dox shooting at stationary enough gunships I'm sure favors the dox. Again it's about unit composition though:

Either way if he has 30k worth of gunships and you have 29,850 worth of veh aa and one ant. If the ant survives and all the air dies which I'm 100% sure it will you win the confrontation.

That's really difficult to measure because of how inaccurate doxen are

Bombers are easier to mass and maybe harder to hit for dox then a gunship i agree on that but dox can actually evade the bombs aswell where spinners probably wont. Im pretty sure that for me personally the only reliable AA is fighters, and when your already making them its smart to abuse them as meatshields for your bombers ofcourse wich you can then also make. If i want to take a risk i think i'd rather take the risk of dox over the risk of spinners because of this synergy between fighter and bomber and the likelyness of losing units.

Also, maybe we should make a topic about this because naval isn't even being mentioned anymore lol.

Yeah of course, I think it's just a matter of unit composition and not spamming one unit and wondering why you are losing to someone who builds several.

If you notice the enemy has 2 air factories and 1 veh. And you have 3 bots. You need to react and not complain that his composition beats yours. This game has become so much fun lately just because there are so many different builds and counters that @elodea hasn't even been able to make a cookie cutter build. This is great for the game. I have played maybe 50 games and never done the same build.

In my mind it basically comes down to this. What is best for defending and attacking mex this build is the bomber. It's 3 times faster and light years quicker to get 1 bomber than sufficient dox to kill 1 bomber. With this in mind, the best purpose of dox becomes not to mass in blobs or kill mex, but to have singular dox everywhere all over the map almost like an area patrol keeping enemy air occupied so that they can't constantly bomb your mex or pressure you quickly with follow up tanks.

When it comes to dox aa, it is all about both the angles and not being attacked by ground units at the same time. Dox have ground target priority, and bombers can be flown in from any angle of attack. If you go pure dox, you will get rekt sideways every single time by tankbomber. Spinners and hummingbirds are a must this build.

Like has been said, there isn't exactly a 'cookie cutter' this build because mixed unit compositions require more skill in execution, and any specific build always has a weakpoint that can be countered. Spamming one unit or even one unit type won't get you far this time. I'm still going to try and make one to help people get a better understanding of how to play the patch though.

As far as boombots, not sure if uber has realised yet that the problem is their ability to apply damage in swarms, where basically their behaviour means you have almost like a maximum damage potential regardless of how many boombots you may attack with. What needs to happen is the removal of this RNG, instead of increasing RNG and volatility with higher and higher boombot damage.

T2 compositions is either sheller spam, or sniper + Slammer + dox + fighter/bomber. T1 land is pretty awesome right now, but t2 is not. I would say that right now shaller spam is dominant only because you won't have the dox factory infrastructure up untill later to meat shield the t2 bot composition.... because dox spam in the t1 phase is no longer a thing.

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t1 naval is decently fine. There is no longer anything that can kill naval that naval can't shoot back at (no more dox or God slammers). They still have great range and can bombard land, with pelters being expensive as hell (both the build cost and the energy cost from using inefficeitn t1 fabs). There is nothing inherently wrong with t1 naval.

Problem is commander torpedos (they built naval? Move commander into water rip boats), and naval move speed + factory roll off time across t1 and t2. They cannot keep up with the pace of t1 land where it becomes more time efficient to just kill people with land units that resolve faster. There isn't any direct imbalance between land and naval, it's more indirect due to pacing.

IM NOT ASKING TO PUT IN CRAPPY UNITS. Why does this point seem so hard to make? I'll give in example. In RCBM both the tank and Dox have the same role, as these sort of front line fighters, however the dox is more like infantry with higher dps, slower speed, but lower cost, the tank on the other hand is like cavlary, with higher speed heavy cost, and low DPS. They BOTH fulfill the role as front line units but in so different ways and by metal comparison neither is better than the other. I'm asking for more units that have relationships like this, to have the same role but fulfill it in a different way.