The 'help me choose hardware to run PA' megathread

PA streams textures from system ram, so more ram would help maintain performance on larger systems. Other games would probably benefit from the GPU upgrade more than the ram though.

To put the performance of a GTX 460 into perspective against modern offerings:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

That is the toms graphics card hierarchy chart (not 100% accurate but gives you an idea where different cards sit). You'll note the 460 is about the same performance as a Radeon R7 260 or a GTX 750 (non TI) which are both more than adequate for PA. Toms generally recommends you look at a card that is *at least* 2 or 3 rungs above your current or you won't notice a good enough performance boost, looking at that though the GTX 770 is a fair few rungs up so it is at least a worthwhile upgrade. My only issue with the 770 is that it is usually a 2gb card, ideally you want to be looking at 3 or 4gb for future proofing, given than the new consoles have access to about 4 gb of usable graphics memory (so cross platform games are probably going to be developed with larger frame buffers in mind, 2gb cards will probably start to struggle).

My old pc build help thread https://forums.uberent.com/threads/pc-build-help.53853/

I had sorted budget before that though, so you might be looking for other input. As a more general advice i urge you to go nvidia if you wanna game on linux, specifically for PA you should get the most VRAM on you GPU as you can. See what doud said about how the game scales, and remember this game will be able to get absolutely massive.

I use this gtx 770 with 4gigs : http://www.materiel.net/carte-graphique/asus-geforce-gtx-770-oc-4-go-gtx770-dc2oc-4gd5-100054.html helped by corei7+32gigs. The current version of the game runs pretty damned well with this stuff

I use 4GB GTX 770 too, and perf is awesome.

I use a G3258 Pentium at 4.5ghz on 1.3volts with 12gb's of ram and a 750ti. i never have problems. only problems i've ever had was ram usage when I have 8gb's.

Right. Due to the fact that my PC is slowly dying on me ( I now need to turn off the PSU and turn it back on otherwise my monitor won't show anything) I am now officially going to upgrade some time around Christmas.

I'll have 1000-1500 EUR at my disposal and I'll likely go an buy components separately (like any sane person would).

So here's what I'm looking for:

I'll reusing my current CD and HDD (HDD is old and 250 GB, but screw it, I don't need more, also I have an even older HDD somewhere that doesn't even run on sata and has 160 GB , but not like I need it).

I am looking at:
30 GB SSD for Windows and big games (currently need about 5 minutes to boot this thing up, I want the wow effect)
A quad or hexacore Intel CPU
16-32 Gigs of RAM that can feed the CPU (not willing to go any lower than that)
A good Nvidia 4 GDDR 5 graphics card (could also go for ATI, but currently I think NVidia is leading the effort)
A PSU capable of running this thing (moar power, Scotty).
A Box to put it in (the current one has aged quite badly and the power button has died, so I have the micro switch duck taped to he exterior)
A good MoBo that can support this and any upgrades I may do in the future.

Possible other buys, prioritised:
A better monitor (the current one is Samsung SyncMaster 940 BF AKA old as **** and 1280x1024, which is by todays standards a low resolution).
A Better HDD or
A better SSD
A Secondary Graphics card
A better cooling system and A better PSU so I can overclock

Any recommendations?
Also I'm guessing a rig like that could run uber setting with no problem, right?

Hi, a few thoughs:
1: Do not attempt to put windows on a 30gb SSD. There are a large number of files that *have* to be installed on the main drive, even if you have a secondary drive to install to and 30gb won't cut it. I have a couple of machines with 128gb SSD drives in them and even that gets pretty tight once you isntall some stuff. I would reccomend looking for at least 120 gb for your boot drive (you can pick those up really cheap now) however preferably 240gb (should still not be over 100 eur).

2: I would replace your old HDD, as old drives get very slow. If you are using a small (120) gb ssd, and your installing onto a second larger HDD you want something in good condition. You can pick up a 1tb drive for next to nothing now (50 eur maybe?) so I don't think it's worthwhile not getting one.

Memory- 16gb minimum is a good call for PA. I would reccomend getting a mothboard with 4 ram slots, and putting 2 x 8gb matched modules (for dual channel mode- which will boost memory throughput) leaving you 2 additional free slots to extend to 32gb later (ram is quite expensive at the moment).

Processor, I personally like the AMD 8 core chips for their value, although they are a poor choise if future upgrades are a concern (fx 8320 is A LOT of cpu for bugger all, and once the server is released PA can probably use all those threads). If your going Intel, Socket 1150 for a quad core Haswell i7 is probably your most sensible choise (that is 8 thread btw) as going to the higher end platform for a hex core (12 thread) extremem eddition will cost you a bomb for little no no gain. Also keep in mind that 1150 is going to get upgraded to Broadwell I believe, whereas it's unlikely anything new will come out for the other platform (I forget socket number).

As for graphics card, if the machine is purley for PA then Nvidia is a better choice, although I do think that AMD cards work fine under windows. Overall AMD are very much leading the value propersition at the moment though, the R9 290 is a perticularily good card that can outrun the GTX780 (espetially at very high screen res like 4k) and costs less so for that kind of budget that would be my choice. AMD are also about to release a new card the R9 285 which is supposed to be very energy efficient (for a high end card) and quite cheap so might be worth keeping an eye on that (although apparently Nvidia have some new cards due towards the end of the year as well so it could all change by the time you build your new machine). There are alot of graphics cards so I'd recocmend you have a read of this: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/gaming-graphics-card-review,review-32899.html as that will help get you up to speed with whats what at the moment, the heirachy chart on the last page is perticularily useful imo.

As for PSU, make sure you get a decent brand (Collermaster, Corsair etc) that has a high output *single* +12v rail rather than multple lower current rails that the cheaper supplies use to get ratings way above their capactiy. A single rail supply will cost a bit, if your spending less than about £60 on a 600w supply is probably not very good. A good single rail should ensure safe and stable operation with a high end graphics card like a R9 290 or GTX 780.

You probably need to install the last DirectX runtimes : http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=56511&clcid=0x409

PA currently can't use a secondary graphics card.
You shouldn't buy a single rail PSU: http://www.overclock.net/t/944707/why-single-rail-is-not-better-than-multi-rail

As monitor I usually recommend ones with IPS panel, like the LG 24EB23TM-B which is 24" or if you want 27" the Dell U2713HM which I'm using. The only downside of IPS panels are their relatively low response time compared to TN panels. However their viewing angle and picture quality is much better.

It's a complex subject- and that guy in that thread is referring to one feature. 'Multi rail' (cheap) supplies are commonly produced by using separate electrical paths, as an engineer who works on electromechanical systems I actually have some experience with designing my own supply circuits. I don't think he is correct in this case.


The reason why a single rail supply is often preferable is: To create a single channel capable of delivering 30A requires better quality, higher rated components, than to produce 2 channels that run at 15A. If you connect two independently regulated 15A supplies into a single 30A load, *unless the balancing of the 2 sources is perfect* all current will be drawn from one 15A rail (usually overloading it and turning it off if the OCP protection is any good). For a good quality supply, each *individual rail* needs to be able to supply the full current needed for any single load attached to it to be certain of stability. It is unusual for any single card to require more than about 50A, so for something like a 1000 or 1200W supply having multiple 50A+ rails is fine for running a system using multiple cards, as you can connect 1 card to 1 rail (note 1 rail doesn't mean 1 connection, each rail usually has several plugs on it). A 600W supply which requires you to plug a single card across 2 rails is usually a bad idea as it is susceptible to dips / ripple where the regulation can't keep up with the rapid changes in power draw (modern cards are bad for this) which leads to unexpected behaviour and crashes.


TL, DR; get a *good quality* supply. Single rail is more of a consideration at lower wattages or on cheap supplies. When you see a 750W 'OEM' supply for £30 you know it's probably not going to work (and likely has no protection inside it beyond a fuse) and usually has multiple unregulated rails that don't work. You *CANT GET* a 750w single rail supply for that price (so recommending single rail is a good starting point so people will end up with something half decent that won't let them down).


Personally I think good value options are supplies like the 'Coolermaster GX' or Corsair CS / CM range (these are both 'mid range' supplies however good enough to run most graphics cards without costing a fortune, frankly the high performance £150+ supplies are only really required if you want to run multiple graphics cards or are thinking of heavy over clocking).

That link was a good read, TY.
I'm looking at the local prices and a 240GB SSD will cost me about 125-150 EUR so I guess that's not so bad. Either way I'm gonna continue using my current HDD if for nothing else then for storage of files I don't want to delete.

Question here. I just read up on what a single vs multi rail difference is and it seems to me that multirail is the safer option, so why recommend single rail? Also how do I calculate how many watts of power must my PSU output? I'd rather not waste money on a too powerful one or buy a too weak one and see it not work/die horribly.

As in my lengthy post above Single vs Multi rail is a very complex issue. The issue is one of context- very high wattage multi rail supplies are the best option if you intend on heavy over clocking, or running multiple demanding cards in SLI or Crossfire (although this would be of no benefit to PA). When your talking lower wattage supplies for systems with a single graphics card (even quite a high end one) then a good quality single rail supply is usually the most sensible option. Note that the key here is a good quality supply. The main issue is that there are many cheap 'oem' 'multi rail' supplies that *don't* have any of the advantages that are touted for a 'proper' multi rail supply.

You nip into your local computer shop and I'll bet they'll have some unknown brand with an '800W' unit for £30. That much output for that price should immediately ring alarm bells- to safely output 800W you need a certain quality of component. What the cheap supplies do is have a chain of *unregulated and unprotected* channels using cheap parts and you'll get something stupid like "4 x 15A 12V rails". Do not attempt to connect a high performance graphics card to a supply like this- as I mentioned you can't add up currently like that unless each 'rail' is accurately balanced with each other. So when you're talking cheaper units, a single rail supply that can output 40A is a better bet than a 'multi rail' cheaper units that can output 60A but over 4 rails. The key requirement is to ensure that the current supply for the +12V rail (used to supply the GPU) has enough current for the card you want to use on a *single rail* as attempting to supply a high power card over 2 rails can lead to lots of problems. If you are using 2 cards, connecting each card to a separate rail is a good option, so long as each rail can power 1 card on its own.

The other thing to keep in mind- the graphics card needs more current that it's specified wattage as you can get momentary spikes quite a bit higher than the average power. So for a 200W graphics card: 200/12 = 17A, however I'd recommend getting a supply with the capability to supply at least 24A on one rail to cover any small spikes. A good quality 600W unit is usually fine for any single card system (e.g. Corsair CX600) and should cost around £65.

Having fried my pc a few years ago due to a cheap power unit, I can't recommend enough the advice above!

One question: How good is AMD R9 280X? I know it's at east decent, but is it good enough for PA with Uber graphics? How about other games? Seeing that the price for 290 or 290X is 30-50% more (290 costs 500 EUR, while 280x costs 350), I highly doubt I will be able to afford the 290 or 290X when December comes.

As my PSU died today and I am stuck on 350 Watt, when I should really be running at the very least 400W, I will be buying a mew PSU shortly and that PSU will have to serve me when I buy a new computer too and since the strength of a PSU is closely connected to power consumption of the GPU I need to know I'm making the right move here.

Where are you getting those price tags from? The R9 280X starts at around 220€ and the 290 at 300€
http://geizhals.at/eu/?cat=gra16_51...ren&sort=p&xf=1440_R9 290~1440_R9 280X#xf_top

In soviet Slovenia ....

https://www.mimovrste.com/graficne-...ica-sapphire-r9-280x-vapor-x-3gb-pci-e-129719

If that's the cost in Austria, thank god my GF studies in Vienna. I'll be getting my PC through her.

The 280X will max out PA I'm farily sure. It also comes with 3gb of memory as standard which is good It's a powerful card (same chip as the old top of the range HD 7970). The only downside to the 280X is the lack of some of the more modern features found in the 290 range (e.g. better crossfire using a 'XDMA' engine- a hardware system basically and 'True Audio' support for special sound FX stuff). If you could stump up for a 290 that'd be your best bet.

Note the new R9 285 has just been released and that is a new class chip with performance between the 280 and 280X, the only reason I'd not suggest getting this card is it only has a 256bit wide memory bus and 2gb memory, compared to a 384bit + 3gb combo on the older 280 or 280X cards.

Edit: In it's favour, the 285 is way more power efficient than the 280 or 280X so it will run with a less powerful PSU.

If this site allows me to order things into Slovenia, then you are my hero. The prices displayed here would allow me to get at least a R9 290X with ease!

It's just a price comparison site, so it depends on which shop you choose in the end. They also have an english version, however the prices there are shown in pounds: http://skinflint.co.uk/eu/?cat=gra16_512&asd=on&v=e&filter=aktualisieren&sort=p&xf=1440_R9 290X#xf_top
They list shops from Austria, Germany, UK and Poland.
Don't buy a R9 290(X) with a standard cooler though as they are really loud and the card gets usually throttled after a few minutes. I have this one without the X and the cooler is really good.