Let's Talk about Unit Health Again

This has been a hotly debated topic in the past, but it's worth bringing up again in light of new balance and since we're getting closer to 1.0.

In my opinion, engagements are too short. You tell your units to move forward and they blow up or they don't. I get that this is supposed to be a macro game, and I love that. But where we're at currently takes it a little too far.

By increasing unit health, engagements last longer, and greater strategic depth can be accomplished. Easy example being, it's actually viable to retreat. Also, combat fabbers are useful for units other than the Vanguard and Inferno, and unit ranges matter even more.

Currently as soon as units meet in battle, they die. Practically instantly. In the case of the Dox, literally instantly.

I propose a roughly 2x health increase of all combat units aside from the Commander. Some units (like the Vanguard and possibly the Inferno) shouldn't get a full 2x health increase. But all units should get about a 2x health increase, and keep the damage where it is.

I've played with 2x health increase, 3x, and 4x. 3x and 4x are simply too much of a health increase. Engagements last too long.

2x health increase seems to be the happy medium.

I'm debating on throwing together a balance mod that takes all units and just increases their health. That way players can give it a try and we don't have to theory craft so much.

I wouldn't mind giving x3 hp a go in a pte.

So how does it work in the balance mods?

In RCBM all units get a roughly 2x health increase. (can't comment off the top of my head about Statera)

Combat is so much more fun. Engagements last longer and you can actually control units while they're in combat – and it matters. Units that are second or third in line will actually be able to fire.

It's... difficult to explain really. In short, it's a lot more fun and there's a lot more strategy and skill involved.

2x hp would be great, though I'd would like to see a similar increase to defenses damage.

The biggest concern I'd have is these new strong units is them just rolling past defenses practically unmolested.

This way army vs army combat takes longer and is more interesting. It also rewards strategic retreat into forward base defenses/setting up firebases behind an army you expect to get into an engagement.

You can't just double health and the units work fine. Most units will need to be rebalanced to accommodate this.

Statera is roughly a 2x health increase, although some bots get more like a 1.5 and the T1 tank gets a 3x.

I think this lower health, lower cost, larger numbers business is an intentional thing. But I wouldn't mind each unit being stronger/more costly either. Was it the TLO stream where Meta said a little something about this?

This would bring us closer to TA, which I'm all for. And somehow I think it would mean less strain on the server as well, but I could be wrong there.

It actually worked really well for RCBM.

And I have played matches where literally the only change was a health increase. It worked really well.

This is exactly why I want to make that mod.

I used to be in the camp against increasing unit health – until I tried it.

A blanket 2x health increase for almost all units works extremely well.

It is an intentional thing. However, we can increase the health and keep the cost the same and make more interesting gameplay all at once.

Maybe when I get the time in the next week or two, we can try this out in the CUB. I havent tested the pte yet, tho so we'll see.

I would love to test it out with you as well as record a bunch of videos so people can formulate their own opinions.

My answer is pretty simple.

Structures are REALLY durable with 3x health, bring them down to 2x. T2 is WAY too durable, don't multiply their health, add the health of a t1 structure to their original t2 health, that way it increases by the SAME AMOUNT as t1.

Units, are closer than structures. Dox could be more expensive, much more so if they soaked just a single shot from a tank. Tanks have a decent amount of health, but if more units had rapidfire then the tanks could have more health in light of that and more damage as well while dox kept or lowered their health, to diversify fire-rate from high-alpha. T2 could be a little cheaper and a LOT lower health and lower dps. Then, just build MORE t2 in light of that. Keep the expensive price of the factory, it is a "cost introduction".

I think THAT would be better just for starters...

Very much agree.

I really do not like the 3x increase to factories and econ structures.

You make a good point about not multiplying T2 units. Since Uber insists on upgraded T2, they may needs a slight health increase to avoid becoming obsolete. Do too much, and suddenly we have RCBM or something.

My goal for this is to stick as close to vanilla, but get us our health increase. One change at a time.

Buuut RCBM is good :C
Lol anyways support for the extra health on T1 units

I completely agree. I would love it if Uber took RCBM and made it Vanilla.

But Uber is firm in sticking with upgraded T2. So. One step at a time.

Yeah, would be nice to see something EXACTLY like RCBM included as that balance is amazing and a ton of fun..hopefully the community adopts balance mods to be the norm at some point.

IIRC, the guys just doubled the health of everything as a base, then continued to tweak from there.

The main problem with the game now is not the health but that there is no transfer to t2. Would you rather 100+ dox or a t2 factory. Doubling the health of units will make this gap much worse.

2 tanks to kill a pd. Dox closing the gaps on the ranged units easier. A bomber requiring more than 4 passes to kill an ant hoping it hits it each time. The list goes on. Too much tinkering to be done to get it close to right for 1.0.

I know I use 1v1 scenarios to argue a point but the way the best players today will be considered nooby in a year.

Edit: just to clarify I'm not saying it is a bad idea but just a little far fetched within the timeframe. We are close now. Dox a little more expensive (either in their cost or energy the bot factory uses) and improve pds and we have a great game to play.

Doubling unit health isn't something I necesarily support. But a t2 structure can survive a nuke no? Thats.... pretty servere. The better question is, would you rather 3x health per cost, or 30x health for 6x cost? Those t2 are WAY too heavily fortified.

Wouldn't this cause another problem of being a little too micro oriented? I understand that having longer lasting battles is fun and all but the time that an engagements takes as of now is in a good spot. Perhaps just a 1.5x on units and buildings? Making engagements last long pulls the player away from macro TBH.