Why the Changes to Doxen are a Good Sign

I leave the forums for a month, I come back, and everyone is talking about Doxen. "We don't need to build everything else! They do everything. Why bother building tanks or air? Dox, Dox, Dox."

To add to the fun, I watched Zaphod's recent King of the Planet tournament (https://www.youtube.com/user/ZaphodX1), and Matiz got trashed by Doxen -- no offense to Matiz or Elodea, they're both better at this game than I'll ever be.

...so, why is this a good sign?

The last time I looked into Planetary Annihilation balance, Vanguards were king. Everybody was complaining that they were unbeatable, a sign that the devs were doing Everything Wrong. We needed a Permanent Revolution, a Complete Rebalance.

Then came Dox.

This is not to say that the Vanguard Problem is solved -- they're still just as powerful as they were before, but the presence of Doxen means that they're more difficult to acquire in large numbers. Likewise, this doesn't mean that the current incarnation of Dox isn't problematic -- perhaps they need shorter range, or perhaps they need to lose the ability to fire underwater.

My point is, this game is not a lost cause, it is not set in stone. Changes to the game can really shake things up as people experiment and find new strategies. Just as importantly: as people experiment, they find out which strategies work best... and, hopefully, why. This allows the devs to change things up so the formerly dominant strategy isn't quite so dominant anymore.

Though I would have preferred smaller changes (small changes can have large consequences when given an opportunity to sink into the metagame), the balance process is alive and well.

No one has ever said the game was a lost cause.

People just point out issues with the game in a proactive effort to fix problems.

We're in the middle of development. In the average game development process, no one would have seen or been apart of what we're doing right now.

I'm a little dubious of the idea that swapping one dominate unit for another should be labeled as "progress".

Mike

You didn't really get the point of the topic then.

The point is that change has happened, just now we are dealing with different problem then before hand in the process of fixing earlier stuff.

I'm still not sure that's what I'd call progress.

Also lets remember, the Vanguard did have changes applied to it as well, but the Dox Changes have overridden that fact. We don;'t even know if the Vanguard is "Fixed" yet, having both it's damage and splash cut in half is a big change but we have no idea how it plays.

Thats the problem when you get lots of big changes like that spread out across the game, it's hard to track what is doing what.

So in the end, despite the fact that things are different now compared to before, have we actually progressed?

Mike

no, the game is doooooooooooooomed.

Ok, I admit. As much as I agree with KNight's post, this made me laugh. A lot.

I expected you would be able to understand the point I was making and I don't appreciate having words put in my mouth.

Mike

nah, my brain doesn't work that good.

[and yeah i get you, dawg. i'd argue that we have progressed -- bots are in a much better place and you suffer some pretty brutal consequences if rush strats don't pan out. that's a lot better than two weeks ago.]

Then don't do this again, I expect more from you.

Mike

So... what was wrong with the Stinger that warranted its removal, only to have the anti-air be tacked-on to the Dox?

Am I to take it that this is in service to " increasing unit diversity "?

you hating? i feel like you're hating.

you could, totes. like, after listening to feedback, we wanted to make sure a bot start was a valid opening. that meant we had to kinda gear them up -- give them more utility to protect your base, protect themselves, and have a super meaningful role in the mid game. are we there? i think so.

*hint: We aren't.

Dox are the only viable opening. They are too strong as a single unit early and in some cases mid-game. No.

Also, the more you try to make fun of the two guys who have made a balance better than ya'lls, the more you look ridiculous. Like that guy who skips leg day.

By putting all of the burden on a single unit?

Not the usual definition of diversity most people would acknowledge.

I'm just disappointed, a valid response to seemingly being purposely mis-represented in a way that appears to line up with the goal of being discredited.

Mike

then, we obviously need to do a better job with the other units, right? sorta related: do you think tank and air starts are worth anymore?

I'm sorry, you have me confused with someone who wants to help you.

As a well-known and well-versed player of your balance?

Hell. No.

Can we all stop talking now? You ain't helping, obviously. There's got to be something up with the RCBM that you can mess with, right??

Brad, not to be unkind, but this isn't really what I would call "hating". Hating is when a person is not even being close to rational. Its when a person has no constructive comments to their criticism, and seeks only to spread anger and resentment. KNight has been clear and courteous in his replies, and as far as I can tell, is perfectly open to rational debate. That isn't "hating". Indeed, there are plenty of examples of such behaviour on the steam forums. Here is an excellent example of a poorly thought out, irrational, uncritical waste of space of a post that does fit the definition of "hating". I do not think it is fair to tar KNight or even Nanolathe with the same brush.

Secondly, I've noticed a concern that a number of criticisms made on the forums by some people are being mocked rather than addressed. I think that is a tad unfair. ANY project needs constructive criticism in order for it to reach it's potential. Indeed, it's one of the things I have learned when writing a paper, that not only am I the worst person to judge it's quality (simply through being too close to it), but I'm also the most irrelevant, as it is something made for other people. The same holds true for any creative project.

Let us not mock and ignore those who are making detailed comments with the single honest goal of trying to make this an even better game. That's not the kind of forum I would like to be on.