Isn't anyone mentioning bots?

Hey,

how come nobody is talking about bots when it's about balance? I find that they're fairly underpowered right now. I only rarely see people using them. Yes, they're quicker, but tanks are way more sturdy and powerful. You get more bang for your buck, so people use tanks. And why use bots as a quick attack unit, when bombers are way better in that regard?

Why use missile bots, when you can have shellers? I mean the sniper bots could fulfill a role as an anti-missile unit. But as it stands now, units that shoot missiles are only rarely used. T2 bombers can be used for sniping a commander, and imo it's fairly balanced right now. But nobody uses the T2-missile-bots. So snipers don't really have the option to shine, because against bombers people prefer anti-air fighters instead of snipers... And I think that catapults, due to their new low range, are not being build that often anymore either.
And well, slammers... They shoot torpedoes now, which I find cool. They have a role, although it's a fairly limited one.

But the biggest problem imo is the dox and the grenadier. They are just too weak, and it feels as if any amount of tanks will deal with them just fine. Another reason why people dislike using them is because you have to micro a lot. And in this game micro is not really something that you want to waste your efforts on.
Tanks you can just send and watch. And although the boom-bot has gotten a buff, it's still not where it needs to be.

Why would you build boom bots instead of doxes? They don't automatically die when they want to destroy something and they can see a lot further. Boom bots can be effective in big numbers, as is true for all bots, but then again I'd prefer a big blop of tanks instead.

Combat fabs... Well, as they cannot assist anymore, they aren't being used that often anymore.
Although, their only problem is that you need to micro them in battles. Else they'll just run in front, or sometimes not at all (when giving attack commands). They also cost a lot. You can't just use a factory to build them, it would take forever. You need to assist it. Most people don't see the worth in doing that.
And I'm not really seeing the advanced equivalent being used, either.

So please, buff the bots. I think it's wrong to make speed their advantage. We have air transports and teleporters to fix that (maybe teleporters are the problem and not the solution?). More speed means less power means more micro involved. They should be able to deal with problems by standing and shooting, just like tanks do. That will greatly reduce the micro. At the same time, they need to be different from tanks in a way. What kind of difference that will be I'll leave to the devs.

Greetings

oh...didnt notice that no one was complaining, but ya...every bot is not good, even combat ones now, they dont heal through dps v their value

I've actually been thinking about this for a while- let's start with the first problem as I see it- T1 has no anti-air. This on a bunch of low health units who often operate in large numbers (prime targets for a bomber) is just injury to injury. The simple solution would allow dox or grenadiers to shoot at air, but that seems a bit lazy/inelegant. We can do better than just that.
Also, on the topic of air vs bots- The dox was designed as a raider, with high mobility to strike at weak points and quickly retreat. They're not very good at this because of pitiful sight range, piddling damage, and the health buff to buildings. A unit that's better at this? Air bombers. They're got the speed to get in and out, t1 air turrets are more of a deterrent than a death sentence (because for some reason they never hit), and can easily pick off unguarded mex and fabbers.
So yeah, T1 bombers counter t1 bots because they do everything that the t1 combat bots do but better (referring to dox & grenadier here).

Oh they've been talked about, but the first main thread on it got deleted so discussion kinda got shattered to many smaller threads as secondary topics and what not.

But yeah, Bots not having AA is for "Improving Diversity" because that's what removing options leads to right?

Mike

What.

Seriously?

So the way they're balancing it- is it their plan to make bot useless?
Because that's what I'm seeing here.
Take away the AA, make the raiding units so weak air is a better option, and Vehicles have everything you need, honestly. General ground combat? Aventails's 'll do the trick. Anti air? They have the best- and only- mobile ground anti air unit. Wanna smash buildings? Infernos will do the trick. And I'm not get started on T2. Except for vanguards, who are just plain old broken.

To be fair they didn't make the raiding bots any weaker than they were before.

Instead they tripled the health of Factory and Eco Buildings(pretty sure) but I don't remember if there was a reason given for that.

Mike

I remember when bots first was OP as hell... Now it's air. Wait not tanks???????/?////??//? Air outclasses bots in every possible way... It's crazy ironic.

Well frankly beforehand the bot aa was just a worse version of the tank aa.

And OP, we have done nothing but moan about bots for weeks.

We've talked about bots, particularly the Dox and Stinger, quite a lot lately.

Uber seems firm that bots are good.

If you want to give them more feedback on bots, check out this thread: https://forums.uberent.com/threads/want-a-challenge-try-this.62015/

Nah, bot aa used to be the same stats all across the board but with more speed and less cost.

One thing I don't think people realize is that massed grenadiers (30+) are actually better than massed tanks. In small numbers grenadiers are ruined tough.

Oh, also, I think giving some bots stealth mechanics would be great. cough cough.

I've noticed that groups of them can wreck a base pretty fast - unless something with splash comes along, at which point density becomes a liability.

You know what would be cool is a hacker bot, that can capture enemy structures.

I have a list of things I have said many times now that can be done with bots to buff them. Pick your poison, might not be wise to do them all unless you have plans to buff vehicles as well

1) Bot factory cheap enough that commander can build without eco, vehicle factory so expensive you stall without 2 mex ahead of time, air factory expensive to require 1 mex 1 pgen.

2) Rearranging the tech level on factories, to allow commanders to only build bot and naval factories, t1 bot and naval to build t1 vehicle and air and t2 bot and naval, and t1 vehicle and air to build t2 vehicle and air. The difference between t2 bot and t1 vehicle, is the cost of the vehicle factory being much cheaper and the eco consumption of a running t1 vehicle factory not plunging the economy like a t2 factory. Still forces a tech cooperation to invest and aquire.

3) Bots themselves cost a little less, do a little more damage, have more health, or some other number such as booms having larger AOE and detonating farther away from target unit so being very decent against infernos.

4) Returning and diversifying the bot AA. Make it fairly expensive for a bot, but give it strong AA lethality. Then give the AA vehicle flak or something that takes 4x more hits to kill but can hit a clump of 6-12 air units depending on their clumpedness.

5) Giving the bots longrange t2 aa, such as making tactical missiles target air which also means t2 bombers and catapults also target other air.

A weird idea. I don't know how much of a good idea this is...
But what if we gave AA to the advanced combat fabber?
I'm not sure if It'll be any good, but throwing it out there.

t... technically... technically they both can reclain enemy air units... technically, they can both reclaim enemy orbital units...

Wait- you can reclaim FUNCTIONING units?
Not just their burned, charred husks?

I think maybe a triangle of balance could be the solution?

1. Make bots straight up better than tanks (for their cost).
2. Due to their liability of walking very close together (when in formation), bots are vulnerable to aoe-damage.
So if you see your opponent building bots, you build units with aoe-damage.
3. Make tanks good against those units with aoe-damage.
So if you build bots, and your opponent builds units with aoe-damage, then you build tanks to counter those units, and then your opponent can build bots again and so on...

That would be my idea.

Yep. It's common when expanding fabbers run into each other, and only one player notices. Then there are tricks like taking a loan on your commander.

Im actually quite comfortable now saying bots might be underestimated. They feel weak but still sometimes they help you win. I think they should help you win more often because they are pretty cool.