If you asked me what I thought about the removal of the T1 stinger, I'd probably say that it was a step in the right direction off a cliff. Two T1 land AA units was redundant whether you like it or not, but simply removing one side's AA capabilities entirely was an insane move. So there are 3 ways I thought up that this can be fixed: 1: Do what the RCBM did, I don't use balance mods (won't until 1.0 is out) but I do like what they did with T1 AA. For those of you that don't know, they brought back the stinger and gave it a low rate of fire AA launcher that can also hit ground targets, if I'm right it also doesn't do much damage The spinner on the other hand uses the ammo system, if it's ammo supply is full it will very quickly release a flurry of missiles, however if air catches it when its supply is low, it won't last very long. This'd give both sides early AA capabilities, but both will still have downsides. 2: Simply bring back the stinger. 3: Bring back the stinger, remove the spinner and bring in a T2 vehicle flakker. Let's face it - of the two, bots are the ones brought down the most by air. They have less vision, MUCH less health and less power. You could start a game with vehicles and survive without AA pretty well, but advancing bot armies without AA are doomed from the start. A T2 vehicle flakker would also be a nice addition. Especially for invasions (anyone who hoards bombers on a planet is currently pretty much immune to invasion, a flakker would make things easier)
RCBM made it a bit like planetside. Which I like, don't get me wrong, because roles are roles and I like seperating roles. The spinner being flak is a neat idea. Less single hit damage, bombers actually survive a pass, but a swarm of bombers will only die 1 by 1 to stinger missiles while spinner flak kills 6< because they clump at the bombing target so you could score a high cluster shot and high cluster kills, flak could realistically kill 20 planes. I mean, if flak does 1/4th the damage, it does MORE damage if 6+ planes than a stinger would. Really, I wouldn't mind if bots had the only AA and tanks didn't. Imagine that, bots against air, vehicles against bots, rock paper scissors, but at least its better than sword versus mace, both strong and no 3rd option.
I really feel forcing one type of unit being hard countered by another isn't a good idea. Rather than forcing two different roles of AA and anti land why not have both units use both roles but in a different way. Sort of like how RCBM did it with the dox and t1 tank. They both have a similar role of front line units but one is a spammable infantry unit with high dps and the other is a faster front loaded unit with high speed and armor but high cost.
Eh, it fits the MO of the game already just to make dox faster and cheaper and less health and same damage, possibly even more range just slightly, while ants have much higher health and slower and more expensive. There is a way to balance current bots against current tanks. This obviously isn't a good attempt in-game right now. Just change the numbers. If dox had more damage, more health, or substancially less cost, or some role like slight range increase, then it would be gravy.
I would still like to see my stealth approach for bots (or something similar) tried out. Destroying something isn't the only way to defend against it. It also prevents the redundancy of needing 2 T1 mobile AA options. Also, I think most people agree that T1 AA turrets should be changed, and bombers' vision should probably be reduced a bit. And an added idea since we're mentioning T2 options: T2 mobile stealth field bot, T2 mobile flak vehicle? Eh? Ehhh?
RCBM now has T2 mobile flak; model, texture and all. https://forums.uberent.com/threads/wip-the-realm-community-balance-mod.58942/page-18#post-962037 This continues vehicles down the path of a "crowd-control" attitude towards aircraft. Our T2 AA bot will be something different, again. There are so many ways to do AA, and we're going to use all of them.
I thought we already knew what the best form of AA was... Seriously though, bots need T1 aa or else they're just not viable as a starting option.
Don't get me wrong, but what if bots had long range AA as t2? Think the tactical missiles targetting air.
Statera has a pelter specifically for air units. But the more I think of it the more I like all tactical missiles targetting air and land. The t2 bomber being wierd isn't a problem, ours doesn't tac missile, both our bombers bomb.
I think that this is the coolest solution. They both work, but are different styles of play. Also, AA missiles need to be less... dizzy.
