What defines thread hostility? (Able commander controversy aside)

I wouldn't call Iron's ban "recent" since it was in March.

I rarely get involved in threads like this due to general futility. I read them and act as referee in my head, only posting if I feel it's particularly important or can clear something up. This reply will probably be futile, I accept that.

The only thing I have an actual opinion on instead of just being referee:

The stinger thread should not have been removed
I can't remember anything hostile about it at the time, and the screen capture doesn't show anything hostile. It was a discussion I was following as it had valid points that were being discussed. Some people talk in more absolutes than I would, which I do not consider hostile (just inaccurate in some cases, /pedantry).

The rest:

But it's for charity
'For charity' is not a valid point.

Reskin
From the comparison, it is a reskin by definition.

Brad's quote

This was taken from post #39. There was no 'uber is trash' talk before this point when I read it (SXX later indicates posts were removed, there is no way to know what brad was referring to).

conundrum's quote

It should have stayed on this forum, but the problem seems to be that it couldn't be on this forum when he wrote it. I wasn't there at the time, I'm only seeing this thread now. I disagree that he was wrong to post it there if that was the case. 'Making the community look bad' is not a valid point imo, if someone has a concern they should be free to voice it come what may.

garat's quote

I'm almost certain you're referring to the able commander discussion. People are raising valid concerns they have. I'd argue the "fire" started with the use of the progenitor model, you know the community is vocal and as such should expect discussion about it. In fact I'd go so far as to say it is the expected reaction, if you wanted a different reaction you should have done something that led to a different reaction. This is coming from a stance of not really caring about the progenitor/able discussion.

I wish i can follow the forums as much as I did before I started work. Things are getting pretty heated regarding re-skins.

I don't think re-skins are insulting words to use. Lowering the exclusivity of an in-game model though... I think that is a kick in the pants.

Starcraft 2 has awesome Thor & Ultralisk reskins/models. They are not commanders of course, but I would probably hate to see Blizzard to sell a similar re-skin of the same model at an in-game store, regardless for charity or not.

I think ultimately, no one likes their exclusive stuff to become free to the public.

They are a great charity; the reality is it's not a defense. Uber entertainment took a unique backer model and reused it. The quote from the kickstarter campaign page:

(my emphasis)
It clearly tells that progenitor commanders model is exclusive not the texture. Every time I see it I think better looking progenitor not able. As part of pledging it is not just the game is all that encompasses it. That includes any add-ons, perks, bonuses, rewards, etc. as part of pledging. when a backer pledged it was an agreement that they would for everything that was offered in the tier. The underlying issue here is Uber not honoring their part of the agreement. One thing you do is always follow through with your word never break it. From past experience Uber should've known this was most likely response from the community. People intrinsically knew this and their reactions are what you would expect.

Now on the subject of this thread. The rules seem to be arbitrary and subjective which is not a good thing for any community. Something needs to be done in order to resolve that perception. A suggestion would be to give a brief statement why the thread was locked or otherwise in order to deal with that perception. The great resource for community interaction between corporations and the community-members-at-large is The Art of Community, Second Edition by Jono Bacon and others. It's awesome.

Edit: The book is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike Non-Commercial. http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/about/book-license/

Tuppence!

In that case I apologise for readily jumping to that conclusion. I agree with your assessment of Uber's interaction being exceptional for game developers in general, but not for Early Access/Kickstarter developers.
The guys over at inXile working on Torment for instance are pretty open to feedback. They even let their supporters decide between real-time and turn-based for the game's combat system - something quite fundamental in my book. Meanwhile Obsidian sends out development newsletters to all supporters quite regularly, detailing the ongoing process and background information to each recent/upcoming change - always explicitly encouraging feedback. While not as immediate and lively as an UberStream it still manages to keep you in the loop and gives you a chance to have your say.
Those projects also have the added advantage of not being on the Steam/HumbleStore frontpage permanently. They thus avoid being judged like any other product that is for sale there - and rightly so, I might add.

Uber has indeed done much better than most Developers out there, but they are certainly not the best when it comes to keeping the community involved or informed. All this goings on with the Able Commander is a prime example because we weren't told about it, we stumbled on to it. If, say 2 weeks ago, Uber had started a thread saying they wanted to a special re-skin for a charity and told us they wanted to use the Progenitor things would have gone much more smoothly, because we'd still have time to calmly* talk about it.

I mean, really this is almost exactly like what happened with the Delta in that it's not so much what was done but how it was done that was really troubling.

*Yes I do realize there are always going to be those that wouldn't talk about it calmly but I do still think that overall the tone of the conversation would have been much more productive.

Mike

Kinda like u told youre father you were going to the store, when really you were going to the beach. That`s just rude, just sayin.

Anyway, what I don't understand here is the level of upset-ness.

Most of you make valid points, but darn if I'm going to ever understand why some skins deserve 10 pages of forum discussion. It's not that big of a deal! Concentrate on actually useful and important stuff, like discussing gameplay and units and whatever else. This thread has become to this forum what the daily mail is to journalism.

Even if there's a reskinned version, you still have your unique commander.

I know right, it`s like journalism came allover everyone. And they like it. Dramaholics

Yeah because those conversations have accomplished so much! ;p

Mike

It's a big deal because of how Uber is handling the situation and because they are no longer fulfilling their kickstarter reward promise which clearly states "unique model"

I do think PA would be quite different without the forums, yes.

While I'm a massive fan of fairness, and keeping promises in general, don't forget that kickstarter funded projects have no legal obligation to fulfill promises at all.

That said of course, while you are right to the letter, I think Uber did a good job honoring everything to the best of their abilites so far, despite the project way over-running the original schedule. I think a deviation of this scale is within margin of error, definitely considering the performance of many other kickstarted projects.

How so?

Mike

I know that they aren't under any legal obligation.

But if that's going to be their reasoning to not provide a "unique model" then...

What I would like to know is what is the commander actually worth? What was it worth before the able commander and how much value has it lost since the introduction of the able commander?

Because as far as I am concerned all you can do with the unique Kickstarter Commander is show off that you are an early backer. I feel that the skins of the commanders differ enough to still do that, so as far as I am concerned there is no lost value.

Actually reading through the Kickstarter terms of service Uber are required to fulfill any explicit rewards to the best of their ability.

https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?country=GB

Look under the 'Project: Fundraising and Commerce' section.

"Project Creators agree to make a good faith attempt to fulfill each reward by its Estimated Delivery Date."

Also

"Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward."

"Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill."

And

"Project Creators may cancel or refund a Backer’s pledge at any time and for any reason, and if they do so, are not required to fulfill the reward."

I think are all pretty relevant....

The only way to find out is to go back in time and not have a community forum.

No it is not the reasoning, but I simply don't believe that a deviation of this scale warrants such outrage.

Either in this game or any other everywhere is always this kind of criticism or ignorance ...

Let us see my example.
I do not like this game and gave up hope ,i completely disagree especially of the ideas that are not part of a possible sequel and also new rts are coming.

But nevertheless I have to respect the choices made, they were made and taken by a team that has not walks in this industry 2 days.

There are several types of criticism and criticism is inevitable ...

1. Constructive critic
This is the guy that will give you suggestions for improving your well wishing. It is his very enthusiastic and twists for their success.

2. Pissed Player (ME)
The customer is pissed for a very simple reason, your product / service in the left hand. The degrees of ****** and nervousness may vary, but what matters is that the customer is right to be pissed.

3. This is who can not tolerate and should be banned for good balance of community ...... The Imbecile
This guy on the internet is called Troll, for us it is called Buster. Buster is a person who will leave an anonymous comment cursing you for no reason. You can be sure that you recognize an ******* when I see it.

Even Uber have them own criticism is perfectly normal, now we can not become arrogant or disrespect to anybody just because we dont have arguments! Its bether just change to other game and forget the one we do not like ...

I've also had my bad times and have learn with them, but not many nows how to handle the criticism.

Nobody likes to receive criticism.
However, knowing that criticism is inevitable, we must be cautious in some attitudes we take for not take with the complainers.