Why is the T2 rush back in 68331?

Indeed, but I have more class than to crassly market my own mod at people. I'll leave that for other folks to do.

What mod is this?

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/wip-the-realm-community-balance-mod.58942/

We're not quite at a FULL release yet but if you want to try it you can get it via the github, MadSci had some instructions somewhere.....you can maybe find lobby with it already that will let you play it without downloading it yourself maybe.

Mike

All I have to say in direction to this thread, is personally I like the general feel of the game, but balance wise t2 being as strong as it is seems to manifest itself in ugly ways.

7 minutes t2 too powerful, 8 minute t2 useless because impossible to achieve without t1 death. t2 units costing a multiple of t1 and doing a multiple more damage. Ect.

I think they just need to be balanced:

-The strength of t2 units can be lower, for instance any ranged unit collects kills from absolute safety so it doesn't to rapidly kill such high numbers. Speed to kite, splash, rate of fire, huge overkill damage, none of it...

-the cost of t2 extractors should demand investment with a longterm return (a minute at least?). Power not so big a deal, it just consolidates the power source, which also makes it snipable but gives it more defendability

-t2 structure health should return to old plus like 1000, not triple. t1 structures got triple but when t2 got triple it got sextuple what t1 did so it should only get the same increase as t1 and not a multiple increase. Can't t2 structures survive nukes or something now?

If the above is taken, really t2 is fine as is, no dramatic push to redesign the whole damn game. On a related note, there is no need to get so heated over a developer making a game. If the balance is terrible, there are many games and many RTS games that have worse.

TA and Spring and Zero-K are supposed to have great balance, I didn't heavily play them because they weren't very friendly and obvious, and I play some pretty complex games to the beginner. Supcom and Supcom 2 had different problems with balance itself. Red Alert and C&C and Generals were poorly balanced numberwise but they were obvious in their mechanics which is how they were loved. Starcraft limited the scale very strongly, as did Mobas, to ensure the balance while making units unique and comprehensive, however the scale makes every little action per minute count both in battle and throughout game development.

And that is both my suggestion for this game's balance adjustment, and why I don't share the mob aggression for the game's development.

TA a majority of the units themselves were imba, but the pacing was good and advanced wasn't mandatory.

Is it? I don't even remember the last time I used T2 and recently I won a 2v2 match without it, even though my enemy had it.

T2 CAN be rushed, but it is so expensive that unless you are expanding well and rushing, you lose.

I agree that balance is really hard to get right, and a game with whole new concepts like PA is going to take time to perfect in terms of balance and game play.

Anyone who rushes t2 will either die to bombers or tank spam (maybe even boombot?). It won't work against competent players.

Thats totally dependand on the type of system your playing on and the way you make your build. You can easily ''rush'' T2 air while spamming fighters in the meantime. Altough it wont be the fastest T2. Boombot i don't believe because nobody starts massing botfactory's and if you don't expect the T2 rush upfront you won't be having enough of them probably. Also, the T2 rush player will have to scout himself and make some extra defenses against a mass boom bot army.

Oh really? Whew, I thought I'd have to learn to T2 rush for the next tourney within a couple days.

(I haven't played the most recent balance so hearing that the T2 rush was back would have made me have to rework my whole strategy.)

In 1v1 a rush without anything else doesn't seem to work, and thats good. But if the player that doesn't go advanced makes a wrong move he dies to it, for example, its very hard to use mass tanks against levelers or shellers,but normal bombers on the commander on the other hand does work. Its kind of dependant therefor what is actually the building and how good the scouting is. I can imagine that its possible to counter a advanced air rush with mass tanks, but i never actually seen a game like that play out (1 time it happened in a 2v2 and they both DC'd so it didn't really count imo). Most players tend to go advanced vehicles as far as i have seen.

That's because:

A) Bots are weak right now, so if you're going advanced land, it's gonna be vehicles,

B) Adv. Bots have a reasonable amount of balance atm, not what i'd call perfect, but much more in line with their basic brethren compared to what the Adv. Vehicles are pulling out.

Four player FFA. Offer the most distant player an alliance and agree to target the player most directly in between you. Provide marginal support and instead turtle a bit while getting either a massive army of fighters and bombers or T2 vehicles up. Kill either the one you haven't targeted yet or your ally (assuming that he hasn't already killed the other guy). Then mop up as the remaining player(s) should be weakened. Fairly easy shtuff.

that is all fine and good except that it requires retooling to counter and once your eco is focused in that direction even a small group of ants can decimate your boom bots and the shellers are back in. Or even easier include 1 or 2 ants for every 3 shellers in the unit mix. strategy nixed.

Well the point of the game IS to 'nix' each others strategy.

Counter-counter-counter play is boring and needs to be avoided if possible.

Are you referring to meta, or am I misunderstanding here?

counter-counter-counter play as in... A counters B counters C? I fail to see the problem. Enemy masses bots, you send bombers. Enemy counters with fighters. A beats B beats C.

If you're talking about A -> B -> C -> A ..., that's rock-paper-scissors. Which I fail to see the connection to the topic of t2 balance.

This is what I was referring to. If he's using x, then I build y, which forces him to build z, which forces me to build h, which forces him to build a, which forces me to build o, which forces him to build q, at which point he's got a unit composition that cannot be countered.