Removed Stinger – Unsure About that Change

So it seems that the playerbase (overall) has learned that when changing a unit, it could be simply testing a different one. Based off what happened last time with the Dox, that's a pretty clear scenario.

Has anyone from Uber stated they were testing a new unit for weaponry using the stinger's model? That would be my question. If they have not, they should definitely expect threads to state 'bring back the stinger'. I probably will, because that's a failure of communication.

It's a long shot, but maybe it doubles as a test to see how the vehicle AA fares by itself against aircraft versus it's bot counterpart. (since last I checked, everyone uses bot AA) I'm not sure if this was balanced and/or thought through, but I really doubt the change is this deep in planning.

Wellp, I guess I am currently proven wrong. Oh well. I kind of think that bots should get a T1 anti-air though...

From

IIRC it was bad because all projectiles used track, or was it that tanks can adjust their aim far too quickly?

Uber.

Uber.

UBER!!!!

I don't know what you were thinking, but I'm having a hard time coming up with an explanation for what it was that's reasonable.

Bot first is impossible if the other guy goes air first. Bots have no way to deal with air. This is simply broken.

Oh well, makes a better situation to promote Statera with.

So. What does everyone think of the stinger being removed now that we've been playing more?

I still don't like it.

Means you can't ever go bots first for risk of being demolished by bomber harass.

Everything couldn't shoot at air, that was TA my friend (Though air could shoot back in it as well), tanks were the only thing that could shoot air, other than aa of course, and aa could shoot land. Tanks shooting air was pretty OP, especially considering they also wrecked bots... -.-

Yes! In my current planetary war I started with only air tech, and bots actually proved a little problematic because the dox that were sent to destroy my mex actually moved so fast that my bombers literally couldn't hit them. I once had 10 bombers circling over a single dox as he was walking around, and he lived for a good 30 seconds and destroyed several mex before he went down.

Of course, that doesn't help if the bombers go for the opponent's mex and engineers, but harassing doxen seem to work just fine even without an AA unit that can keep up with them.

I really hope the AA bot comes back. I def. think it has a place in the game. Why remove it? Is it because we don't want @BradNicholson to spam bots only? Vech, naval, air, space, all have units that can hit air.

Not having the winning strategy be to spam one unit type is a good thing. But picking bots or vechs should both be viable land options.

Agreed. If we want unit diversity, make the units behave differently. Don't completely remove the unit from a certain class.

There's a way we can make each AA more diverse by playing to each classes strength. As I said above, bots don't necessarily need an AA escort to go harass the enemy; they need something to defend their own mex and bot fabbers. If stingers returned as more mobile AA with longer range but less damage, you could build a lot of them and have them patrol your own mex to guard them from bombers while you send doxen to destroy the opponents mex.

On the other hand, vehicles are more suited for a direct attack, so there's less emphasis on range and mobility and more need for higher hp and damage to prevent bombing runs from taking out a bunch of tanks.

We would then have two ground-to-air units suited to different purposes; one would be used to guard large areas, and the other would escort assault forces.

This is a GREAT idea. I like that kinda of thinking.

Like...why?

Why would you remove the Stinger? I don't get it at all.

A number of reasons. Retasking the unit, temporary experiment. Retasking the catergory (bot), temporary experiment. Rebalancing, temporary removal. Middle of changing some things, temporary removal.

Temporary is temporary under most temporary in that temporary. Do I need to say it moar?

My only issue with this is- do we *know* that it is a temporary change?

I thought this was supposed to be a serious balance pass. Removing such a basic unit seems wrong.

A serious balance pass, is not the same as a serious balance proposal.

A serious balance proposal, means they think this is functioning balance.

A serious balance pass, means extreme changes to balance to explore new ideas.

Now we've gone in a circle - extreme balance changes, like making bot first automatically lose to air first? Why would you do that?

I believe only a dev can tells us the answers we seek. @scathis can you shed some light on this please?

Like the time that Orbital Fighters were "temporary"?

I don't see how you think you can simply dismiss the buildings. Your production facilities and base are the biggest indicators of your abilities.

The only thing that matters in the game is killing the commander and the best way to do that is gut the enemy production and/or economy....

Units don't really matter as long as you have the economy and production to simply overwhelm the enemy. If someone opens air vs a bot factory, they have a distinct military advantage and a very distinct economy disadvantage. You WILL take damage as the bot player. Your workers are cheaper, produced twice as fast, and almost half the energy cost. Do something with that....

What buildings you build and when will ALWAYS be the most important part of any RTS game that involves you building your economy and production. Now obviously the race to t2 was stupid. They have fixed that. It's called work in progress and balancing. No matter what world you like to call home though, what buildings and when you build them, ESPECIALLY your first ones, are going to be some of the most important decisions you make deciding the direction you take in the game.

What makes you think that you should be able to do anything you like with only one class of unit or production? How is it any sort of strategy to just spam the cheapest fastest units and expect them to counter everything?

I agree with your first post about further testing required. However each subsequent post is a little off.