A proposal for the implication of "mega" units

Not really - I'd just start funneling my army through a teleporter close to the drop point, possibly send in Avengers if I have more of them than the attacker. If I can achieve ground superiority at the drop zone before they get most of their army through, or just beat the army they send with superior numbers, I come out ahead. If they have the money to secure the drop zone and send in a numerically superior force before my army arrives, then I would have been simply outplayed. Either way, the fight for planetary control revolved around ground combat, rather than nuke-vs-antinuke wars.

So drop artillery with your vanguards.

And drop in more then 1 location, Invasions that are too hard you should asteroid.

That's kinda the point of the game.

ah another one of those ideas the die hard 'PA must only be about piddly units without shields and without stealth and without something else which hasn't been suggested yet but because it isn't in right now will therefore break the balance' people shoot down without giving a minute or two of consideration....

A mega-bot has the advantage of being a very large easily used/spotted sponge that is more easily transported in the manner describe in the OP, it also as the advantage of looking awesome (wasn't that a catchphrase for this game), and can tank damage more effectively and reliably than a blob of tanky units that have to path around and be pathe'd around.

Come on UBER don't be held to ransom by these 'l33t' prats, you originally conceived such a unit and IMO sadly/foolishly kowtowed to the whims of a small but vocal and active (hence numbers on polls which do not/can not possibly reflect the true majority) minority. Admittedly these people comprised many of your earliest and loudest backers, but let me be frank they don not represent the market not by a longshot, the only reason SupCom even sold any copies at all was because of the epic looking units on the box/screen-shots and resulting hype, super-zoom and all the other things were distantly second to experiementals in coolness factor, and oddly that and the economy (probably the least popular feature for the wider RTS audience (but necesary for all TA/SpCom fans/vets) seem to have been the only things to survive from previous games...

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/experimental-units.49163/
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/poll-will-you-admire-the-game-without-experimental-units.49336/
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/experimental-spiderbot.38333/
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/wip-megabot-ideas-and-progress-thread.59374/
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/wip-megabot-help-found.58881/
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/megabot-thoughts.56419/
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/...mensional-can-we-get-a-megabot-already.55362/
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/suggestion-another-possible-pa-take-on-megabot.52231/
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/reviving-the-megabot-discussion-in-light-of-recent-events.51057/
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/more-megabot-types.45368/
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/for-backers-only-megabot-experiment.44543/

And this is only the surface.

To say we shot them down without consideration is the most knee jerk reaction I have ever seen.

bollocks those threads are exaclty what I'm saying, you lot shot them down, and kept shooting them down. Posting multiple times to say the same thing in a dozen threads is NOT consideration, not even close. Rather an elite few of experimental haters decided that experimentals were what was wrong with SupCom (along with shileds E-War and everything eles except basic radar really) and posted what amounts to No. No. No. about a hundred times. Unfortunately the wider audience wasn't active yet as steam sales hadn't kicked in and those of us who were there were at that time outnumbered... Im not for a unstoppable unit that can do everything BTW, that seams to be the common fear... Its not like the game doesn't have the tools to deal with such units presently accounted for, (t2 bombers as they are, catapults in their current incarnation and now Tac-Missile bots, mega-bots are far from an apocalyptic game-breaker, infact they're one of the few things overkill units are acutally useful against...

We have considered on multiple occasions, and have had lengthy discussion on the topic.

If your are not going to discuss this sensibly, and actually read the arguments posted here then you really have no argument to stand on.

You sir, are not considering our arguments, you are shouting and swearing on your soap box because you can't get your way.

We shoot them down, because we disagree with them and no longer wish to write another wall of text for every new person who thinks they have a award wining idea.

People disagreeing happens, please do accept it.

Problem with that is, bombers would near-instantly wipe out any artillery you drop with the vanguards, since they have low hp and little-to-no AA support. Dropping in more than one point is good, but it means bomber swarms will have an even easier time cleaning up any AA you send before mopping up. As for planet smashes - yes, that's viable when you have an asteroid available, but when that's not the case, I'd rather the game didn't devolve into throwing nukes into the opponents anti-nukes, or trying to punch through a planet's defenses using only vanguards and spinners, because anything else would get wiped out by defending bumblebees.

An orbital drop megabot would provide an alternative by being able to survive long enough to clear out nearby defensive structures, so orbital fabbers could then build anchors and establish a beachhead. This allows the late-game to become more about large armies fighting each other, rather than Missile-Defense meets uncounterable planet smashes.

Well I do really feel like sticking to my guns that we should be solving the invasion problem in a way that doesn't need the introduction of a new unit for the specific role.

Because these mega bots still have no reason to not also be used defensibly.

But as it stands, I don't like the current nuke mechanic, and would love to see many new counters made to it.

Thus making large scale invasions more viable, if the UI can be fixed.

Dropping off 300 unit army's across a planet, with enough force to deflect, mitigate or destroy incoming missiles, potentially.

Allowing the establishing of ground instillations.

and of course asteroid belts, and roids that don't cleanse entire worlds will also go a long way to making the overall orbital stage more enjoyable.

Orbital units should be support, but dropping off a single one man wrecking machine seems really silly.

I disagree strongly that my statement was in any way offensive or dismissive even, I was merely expressing my opinion that on a sizable number of issues a few people show up without fail and say No, Reason A - blah, reason B - blah etc... There are some valid reasons why not to have a megabot and I accept that, but in all honesty they aren't all that serious at all, certainly weren't in sup-com, its like with shields no-one ever thought they were game-breaking until PA got kick-started and people started discussing what was in/no in it.
Yes someone could use a mega-bot defensively and nothing could stop them from doing so...but nothing should stop them from doing so, I don't understand the blatant disregard of what aught to be valid tactics and strategies. One of the reasons I remember was the dreaded fear of unit invalidation, here too this is irrelevant as mega-units fill their own completely unique niche and require entirely different uses, counters. And then there is the idea that they would serve no purpose if they were as cost efficient/less cost efficient as a number of units of whatever tier, this argument is entirely invalid as those factories are still pumping out normal units and if your economy isn't strong enough to do both you lose and the same can be said of someone else, and when its finished you have a unit that can soak up a ton on damage allowing you to position your forces, save a major part of your base (which for some reason you think is terrible ???), land on a planet (more easily) etc... Besideswhich my original point stands unchallenged some people (yourself included) appear on the face of it to be dead set against several ideas/concepts and constantly post in each and every thread someone makes about them, with more or less the exact same 2-4 arguments which are IMO meaningless if the devs (or modders) balance these things correctly when/if they transition from concept to game-play element, or existing balance has changed significantly from when it was previously discussed. ie - currently if a minor experimental from supcom was ported into the game there are tools at the players arsenal that could deal with it in short order thus invalidating OP concerns.

If people are using the same arguments, then obviously they haven't felt that the other side of the discussion has been satisfied.

The idea is vague, so people end up discussing tactics until death.

The idea is supposedly cool enough to warrant entry, when that's perspective.

The idea is supposedly unique, when it does nothing normal unit cannot also do.

The idea can be balanced, which is true, but that doesn't cover over the fact that it has no unique purpose.

The idea doesn't fit the theme of the game, having one x100 unit is not the same as having 100 units.

The idea was fun until now, which isn't true, the idea is just as flawed from previous games, people just balanced rather then removing free assets.

The idea can be fun, the idea can be balanced, the idea can have a use.

The idea is not unique, the idea doesn't have a unique purpose to fill, the idea isn't fun to every one, the idea doesn't add to strategy, it becomes the strategy.


You say that your arguments haven't been challenged, that is because you haven't said anything worth challenging.

I'm on the fence on this one- TA had a megabot which didn't break the game, and be assured they *will* be in the game one way or another (given PA's big focus on mod support- there are plenty of megabot fans out there).

The *danger* with adding in any mega unit is the game can quite quickly become about those and not much else. Also your previous comment regarding the economy- it isn't just TA derived games that have an eco function. In fact the *only* rts series I can think of that doesn't involve economy is the 'TotalWar' games which give you an army and scenario at the start.

The game that really hits home how this type of thinking can go wrong is SupCom 2- it was a flop, and not really down to any one reason. They just oversimplified it, and focused too much on it being 'cool' with a view to getting it onto consoles (which also forced them to greatly limit the map size and such). The end result is a game that was "who can rush to experimental the fastest", and then the "experimental" units just become the standard units and get boring pretty quickly. A good chunk of the community come from SupCom and remember the SupCom 2 fiasco too well- it killed SupCom as a franchise so people are very cautious to avoid the same problems happening with PA.

Now I like a good megabot- if done well. A megabot done well should be a pretty rare sight, it needs to be expensive and only show up at a late stage in larger games and then it has impact. Keeping the economy factor is important in this as it ensures that it is difficult to get. TA had this about right, in fact SupCom FA plays fine with megabots too as they don't show up until after prolonged conflicts with the more usual units, then one shows up at which point its a 'oh ****' kinda reaction

As for the idea of some sort of drop unit- I've been a fan of this idea for a while. Actually I'd like to see orbital drop pods that can deploy normal units, a good example would be a fighter that is built in a pod in orbit (completely defenceless in this mode) and is then deployed releasing a non-orbital air fighter to tackle your opponents air force. The idea of a 'fire base' as proposed in this thread also sounds interesting. It would certainly help create a larger foothold for an invasion force. I know anchors do already fulfil this role and I doubt anything like this will get done pre 1.0 release but some of these ideas do have merit.

I have nothing against orbital drop units.

But we are playing with army's, not megazords.

Megazords.... that takes me back XD

Perhaps they could be limited to a support role. Such as heavy aa or some sort of armor buff for the units around them. This way rushing them without a supporting army would be pointless. This way you don't get the doom bot spam/tech race.

True, but then at that point, they would essentially be just like normal troops.

Which is what I want.

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To say it hasn't been discussed at length is like saying chemistry is only a little bit relevant to biological life.

Just one comment on why defensive megabots wouldn't be an issue: the role I see them as filling is to hold a beachhead long enough for teleporters to go up rather than fighting ground units cost-effectively, so when attacking a planet, they would all land in the same area. Meanwhile, defending a planet would mean either putting your megabots in one location (in which case the beachhead is established elsewhere), or spreading them out across the planet (in which case the attacker would have overwhelming local superiority wherever they land). Thus, the defender would be much better off building standard ground units and sending them through teleporters to wherever the attack hits.

I don't remember it being stated that these mega bots couldn't move, that would make them rather pointless when compared to a laser satellite.

Also, how the hell do you set up telepoerters in a area that's being attacked?

what do you exactly propose to make it more intresting ?

i personaly have no problem with the current basic nuke vs antinukemechanic ... it just works ... maybe not fun but functional ...
and i realy would like a antimissile+artillery PD unit to stop some damage thrown at your armies i think that´s a better alternative than shields

I never said they couldn't move - it's just that if the defender has 300 megabots spread over their planet and the attacker sends 200 megabots to a specific location, it'll take considerable time for the defending megabots to all reach that location, at which point any nearby megabots will have been destroyed and a beachhead would have been established.

As for setting up teleporters, the idea is that the megabots can survive long enough to clear out nearby Umbrellas, leaving an orbital fabber group free to build anchors for air cover, followed by teleporters.