[WIP] The Realm Community Balance Mod

OK so here's what I've been thinking. Seeing how skitters are also AA now and that the stinger is quite good at AA too I and there are plans for a T2 AA vehicle, why not just move the spinner to tech 2 and make it like an AAA (anti air artillery) with Flak like AOE that can shoot down catapults (as planned). That way you have more use for skitters in your tank mix (they might need a slight buff to AA capabilities), stingers for your really good T1 AA (mixed armies, yo) and both are week enough so you still require fighters. On the other hand you have a T2 "flak AA" without the need to make new units. Additionally you aren't over saturating things because oyu have just moved a unit around rather than made another nit.

Just played a match with the balance mod and have a little feedback.

Skitters are extremely powerful during the opening 2 to 7 minutes. Extremely powerful. Played against Zweistein and kicked *** with skitters. Ultimately he then curb stomped me with bots because I didn't manage my eco. But there doesn't seem to be much that can stop skitters. Skitters are so fast that other units are the equivalent of defensive structures. I'll just go around. I think they could do with some tweaking. Not completely sure what. Maybe a slight speed or vision reduction? I like them, they're just a little powerful.

The other feedback I have is about the Uber cannon. It has a significant range reduction, right? So now the only things that have less range than the uber cannon is the skitter and infernos. So this mean the only way the uber cannon will be used is if the attacker is a complete idiot and runs straight to the enemy commander. If the attacker has any intelligence, units will never get within the range of the Uber cannon. So I don't think the Uber Cannon's range should be reduced.

Skitters shouldn't be flashes, they should be jeffies. If you want flashes, make a new unit with a model that makes sense for the amount of health that they have pls.

Agreed!

Minimum effective solution. We're refraining from adding new units (also we can't yet due to how server modding works at present), unless absolutely necessary. This mod isn't about " new stuff ", it's about using what is there and altering the fundamental balance paradigm.

In time we can add new models and units in a separate Mod that is designed to do that kind of thing; a Realm Community unit pack perhaps. However, we do not have the means to upload a new model right now. Apologies.

I believe that skitters should have a shorter vision radius, maybe almost none, but have radar and a definite speed reduce. Like I mentioned before, their health seems ok.

This is fantastic! Keep up the great work guys. As a developer of random stuff (so I sort of understand how easy/hard it is...) I have always dreamed of a moddable RTS game. It is finally here!

Can't have truly epic mods without a moddable server.

Problem with that is, because they tail-off past about the 10 minute mark they need something that makes them useful in an army composition. Vision is the key to that.

Honestly I think part of the perceived problem with Skitters is that as players, PA has taught us to expand so rapidly that there is a real danger for most people to over-extend. So far, if I identify that my opponent is spamming skitters I buckle down and expand only when I have Dox cover. Dox are so cheap and you'll be producing so many of them already that you can carefully expand, rather than rushing, over extending and then getting picked apart.

As per Brian's example Zwei, you managed to hold off his harass because you focused on Eco and defence. That's precisely the strategy to deal with a mobile threat. Skitters are potentially too cheap, that's really all I'm willing to concede at this time without more testing. I really don't think there is any other problem with their behaviour, nor how good they are at raiding.

Now, although I could be wrong, I have yet to see a game where skitters were either the dominant play, or closed down huge swathes of the game as invalid. They are a great way to harass a greedy player who over-expands, but they fall to dedicated defences, armour, bot swarms, or just about any significant amount of resistance. I view them as fairly reasonable at the moment, as they have utility, while being easily counter-able by multiple units, meaning that by using skitters, you offer your opponent plenty of options as to how they fight back. That is meant to promote counter-play. They are also not useful as a massed force, as their short range hampers deathballing.

If there is a wide consensus that they are overpowered in some way, then we are happy to look at them. However, until I see games where they are considered as "the only way to win", I don't think they are broken. Although, I remain happy to listen to evidence to the contrary.

I'll agree that skitters shouldn't immediately be changed just because they feel strong (I'm trying not to use the word OP until more testing is done). I do feel that they should be observed more closely. But on the contrary I do expand very aggressively and often open myself to harass. MORE TESTING I SAY!

https://github.com/cwarner7264/realm-rebalance/releases

We've pushed forward with Pre Release 3.0.0 (Air Balance) and we would like everyone who's interested to download and install it!

We're aware of a few bugs, namely some Air units not initiating strafing runs and hovering in mid air without acquiring new targets. This seems to be a bug where the unit is unsure of how to maneuver itself from its current location into a position to attack (a long standing problem with Vanilla PA). We've done our best to rectify the issue, but there are some situations where the planes will bug out. As far as we're aware this is an "unsolvable" problem via JSON manipulation alone and the best we can manage is a "hack" to trick the fighter. Apologies, but it should have minimal impact on performance.

We are also aware that Uber are starting to alter their bombers into some variants that we currently do not have. We're not certain on whether to adopt the roles that they are working towards, or keeping our own ideas as they currently stand. Certainly the thought is interesting and further testing may be required. For now please take the mod "as-is" and we'll continue to develop our thoughts on the matter when we get ahold of Uber's final implementation of their balance pass.

It's worth noting that we have ideas for the future, some of which we'd also like to test out when we have the capacity to add new units into the game.

Could you tell me what I have to do to get the mod working in the current 67053 PTE build? the mod doesn't show up.

scratch that, it worked out of the box.

So far my feelings are : what's not to like?

very good. maybe a tad heavy handed on the t1 bombers. When employing them you no longer feel the margin of extra health given to the units.

tank turrets still turn a little slow IMO.

aside from all that I'm in heaven.

My favorite thing about the realm balance mod is its ability to build a factory first.

I just played the PTE build and hated having to build metal, metal, power, metal, factory. Seriously. Everyone builds the exact same buildings at the start. So why have that in the game? Give us more variety by allowing us to go factory first and cut out the boring waiting for the first buildings to be finished.

Apparently, because this mod goes into the 'server_mods' folder instead of the 'mods' folder, PAMM does not see the Realm balance mod whatsoever. I also can't move PAMM's mod directory to the 'server_mods' folder either, so how in the hell do I make PAMM see the realm balance mod with my other mods?

My version of PAMM and raevn's version of PAMM are not yet equipped to handle server mods. Mereth's version just implemented it though. I did put server mods in my version as well, but it's not released yet. I'll hold off until the server mods get into stable.

Spinners are useless. Sure, their range is fantastic, but stingers work just fine AND are useful in ground engagements (better than dox are, in fact).

Increase stinger damage by 10 and decrease stinger range by 10. Decrease spinner damage by 20 and decrease spiner range down to 100.

I don't think PAMM supports server mods at this time.

That's telling me more that the Stinger is slightly overpowered than the Spinner being underpowered.