experimentals for GW?

I know long ago and over many forum threads it was decided experimentals at this time wouldn't do much in terms of gameplay for normal game types and so will not appear for now... (just like shields)

but I just realized...

is it possible we could have supcom style experimentals in the galactic war? these would be 1 time units spawned randomly on certain planets (in game they probably would not appear until later in the match... or on a seperate planet with no way of getting off)

would make for some interesting situations this way, I think, if when invading an enemy planet you have to account for a gigantic "boss like" unit that won't be easy to take down.

edit: these units would not be buildable, and would never be friendly, in other words. in fact, they could even be neutral, attacking either side.

This would fall under random events dealing destruction.

Imagine losing a Galactic War match because you got unlucky and the Experimental spawned closer to you than your opponent.

It wouldn't be fun.

I'm opposed.

the thing is GW is meant to be multiplayer too.


so I see no reason to have big bots on just GW.
and the random spawns is a no.

we can clearly see randomness is PA's bane right now

While I would not mind it in a single play sense, however, GW is also going to be a multiplayer mode as well as a single player mode, and I cannot justify this for multiplayer.

Well the single player and multi-player versions are going to be different anyway.

I could certainly see experimental type giant units as being a possible thing in Galactic War, since it has such a different form of balance. Maybe some form of very-late metagame giant units that would require multiple specific sets of techs, which would leave you weaker in other ways eating up tech slots for giant units that would take a long time to be able to deploy, but could be quite effective base crackers for use in later game, as an option if one doesn't have things like Nukes or planet engines. I think it could actually be pretty well balanced for GW as a unit in Single or Multiplayer exactly because you don't have access to everything.

ya but I'd rather they not be different in the way that GW has more content than MP, i'd rather have MP have more content than GW.


You've probably also noticed the accent is on MP, this is also the reason why GW is there to fill in for a campaign that UBER ruled against.

We'll be able to add units to gw and mp. Experimentals are going to happen this way initially because it doesn't involve any great coding effort (like the way you suggest would). How experimentals are added beyond that, is up to whoever wants to mod it in.

Its really too bad that the game has put so much focus on the MP skirmish mode to the detriment of everything else, but yes certainly for now the focus is on getting Skirmish to a good balanced place. I think eventually they can flesh out some more things with GW that would make it a separate but good standalone experience on its own, where they can utilize some mechanics that just can't be balanced in skirmish where everyone has access to everything.

First, RANDOM = BAD, words cannot describe how much I've hate randomness in perks, event, etc. Random means that bad things can 'randomly' stack making it more challenging than you wanted it to be, but even worse to me is the randomness that stacks all the good things, making it a walk in the park. (I really obsess about tech/loadout when I play )

Second, I vote in favour of Epic Units in both GW and multiplayer. GW needs a techtree instead(/combined) with (minor) random drops where Epic Units would be very late tech.

They should be strong, but not cost efficient in damage output. Their strength should be their 'tanking' ability. Drawing the fire of artillery, giving your lesser units a chance to make it to the enemy base. It will get wrecked if it's not properly supported.

PS: I really don't like the term "experimentals", I know it's just a way to refer to the (currently) non-existing units, but still..

As for the randomness in GW... it does not = bad... it may be *too* random right now, but GW is not a competitive multiplayer experience and having game elements that change your experience and add replay value are GOOD. I will agree that right now there is not enough sense or order to unlocking techs, but that simply means we need a little bit of algorithm behind our random generator, not getting rid of it. Completely replacing the random drop system would severely depreciate the best element of GW. Let mods add a static/scripted campaign. I want replayability and variety. I want them so badly that I value them far in excess beyond balance. If you feel the game is too easy or too hard then adjust the difficulty, but don't make it predictable.

In the case of GW PREDICTABLE = BAD.

I see a mountain of potential in GW for the perks/techs to unlock dozens of new units... Most would be through mods, but all those cool things we've talked about in other threads but always shoot down because it invalidates another unit??? It's OK if you don't have that other unit available. Instead the GW perks/techs can be used to open up massively customizable armies with wildly different play styles. More techs to choose from means more factions to play as or against too. It's very much a win-win for people who desire super units or giant spaceships. We finally have a place where they are all appropriate without damaging the delicate balance of PvP.

I don't see why they couldn't add a card like a subcommander that unlocks an experimental to build in the single-player only GW. If there's subcommanders, that'd be a fun additional unlock.

Wouldn't that make it too easy?

Like, I'm more then fine with fuzzy balance for single player, but that might be pushing it.

Might.

Subcommander make things way easier than anything else you can imagine.

What I don't understand is why the opponent doesn't get subcomanders as well?

The bosses do.

But the random guards at the different systems are just lone sub commanders.

Some cards are obviously weighted to be more common. I think Sub Commanders should be more rare and the enemy should use them more often too, but anything along the lines of a super unit or other game ender could easily be made as rare as a sub commander should be.

Well, I don't envision it being something that just spawns when the match starts like a subcommander. I should have been more clear about that. But more that you can unlock it as a tech, and build it late-game. Like, about as difficult as halley's or nukes to build. More for fun than anything, and to give the people who want experimentals what they want

Well, I was just refering to the OP with the random drops of super units and the current system of unlocking tech.

I may have put it a bit strong with the "random = bad", but I'm more in favour of a nice techtree/'galactic store' kind of concept, where you and 3 other galactic war AI's battle it out to be the king of the galaxy gaining cash and research points from conquering planets.

I agree that mods probably will be needed to flesh out GW for it to be to my linking.

Nothing says techtree quite like an AARPG. It's a great system for progressing a player's power level gradually while also giving them some control in the direction, and that's a good thing, but those same games also rely very heavily on random drops and random maps.

In my eyes the best path would look something like this...

Commander Loadouts remain unchanged.
Tech (not perk) cards are still dropped on planets
Tech cards should have random prefix modifiers that combine perks and techs. (like Diablo weapons) ie:

• Bot Tech, Unlock Basic Bot factories
• Efficient Bot Tech, Unlocks Basic Bot factories and all bots cost 20% less metal.
• Superior Bot Tech, Unlocks Basic Bot factories and all bots have +10% more health and damage
• Armored Bot Tech, Unlocks Basic Bot factories and all bots have +40% more health
  
• Lethal Bot Tech, Unlocks Basic Bot factories and all bots have +30% more damage
  
• Perfected Bot Tech, Unlocks Basic and Advanced Bot factories and all bots have +20% more health and damage

Tech card drops should be weighted so that Advanced cards drop after you have basic, and more powerful cards are rare. Also, Super weapons tech should be split into 3 different cards, while each more rare than the current super weapons card, the odds of getting at least one should be significantly higher. (because current "no superweapon" multi-planet combat is BS)

In addition to Card drops we could have a perks tree that allows a player to spend his points with specific goals and more powerful perks reserved for the late game. The perk tree could include basic techs as unlocks. If taken you wouldn't need the tech drop.

The last and final condition being... the enemy difficulty needs to ramp up gradually as the player gains new tech and perks and planets need to be rated by their difficulty. Instead of setting the whole GW session to normal, hard, etc the individual planets would be rated. In addition to ramping up the AI settings it's should also be possible for more random planets to spawn similar to the boss fights. Multi-planet spawns, giant planets, and multiple enemy commanders. Harder planets would drop better cards. Even if a boss faction only drops a basic tech it might be a much better version of that tech.

I think that a scaling difficulty combined with a rewarding randomized system while also giving the player a predictable perk tree that can be used to compensate bad luck on tech would make a more rewarding Galactic War campaign.

What if experimentals ARE to be added to the game, but are allied with the bosses when doing boss raids?

This sort of setup could be used to add to / create a scenario bank from which differing boss battles could be pulled and created so that there is more randomness to the game. Sure, it might make sum runs through GW downright impossible in terms of first / second boss runs but in my mind GW is not supposed to be easy. Uber seemed to be looking to put more of a challenge into GW by limiting the buildings that can be produced and such and such so as to put players out of their comfort zones. Including enemy controlled Experimentals (whether they be units, buildings, or just a super-smart AI with a super-strong starting eco) only seems, at least to me, to add to this difficulty while also maintaining and even adding to the sense of randomness which serves to make GW such a unique gametype among any RTS, really.