Why can turrets be built so fast?

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by tatsujb, May 6, 2014.

  1. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

    Messages:
    12,902
    Likes Received:
    5,385
  2. spainardslayer

    spainardslayer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    257
    Because they cost a tiny amount of metal for their effectiveness.
  3. cptconundrum

    cptconundrum Post Master General

    Messages:
    4,186
    Likes Received:
    4,900
    That has been fixed in the new balance.
  4. brianpurkiss

    brianpurkiss Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,879
    Likes Received:
    7,438
    Because they are so cheap and have so much damage potential based on their cost.
  5. Dementiurge

    Dementiurge Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    693
    Their effectiveness doesn't affect how quickly they can be built. A couple of these responses are weird!
    thetrophysystem likes this.
  6. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,961
    Likes Received:
    3,132
    It depends if you mean with one engineer or a squad?

    A single engineer won't build them faster then a factory can build units, but a squad of engineers is as good as a group of factory's.

    So people tend to assume that turrets are easier to build then units, they are not, but 5 factorys building 5 units at a time looks slower then 5 engineers building one turret at a time.
  7. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

    Messages:
    2,535
    Likes Received:
    2,865
    It pretty much does. As the radar coverage is quite big you have a lot of time to neglect PDs until you see threat. Then build one in 15/30 secs with a fabber. Their cost should be balanced by build time, not so much metal costs.

    They can still be powerful but you should be punished for not protecting.
  8. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,961
    Likes Received:
    3,132
    A time cost would be acceptable for the double and triple variants.

    But I still feel we need the single barrel laser to be a cheap temporary anti-raiding defence for expansions, weak but suitable for fast moving, lightly armoured bots and cars.
    ace63 likes this.
  9. Dementiurge

    Dementiurge Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    693
    You could also limit the number of fabbers that contribute to building a turret.

    If you have enough fabbers, you can pop up turrets like a Farmville crop (a metaphor from 2009! I'm so trendy) regardless of their cost or... ahem... effectiveness.
    I'm being nitpicky about the use of language. If Tatsujb had written "why are turrets allowed to be built so fast", or "why aren't powerful units built more slowly" or "why are turrets so cheap", I'd agree without argument.
  10. Geers

    Geers Post Master General

    Messages:
    6,946
    Likes Received:
    6,820
    Because it's the future.
  11. perecil

    perecil Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    53
    The build time is only depend on the metal flow from the fabber? Maybe should uber implement some kind of metal flow per time ratio to slow down some building construction?
  12. nateious

    nateious Active Member

    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    212
    And the metal cost of the unit, which means the only (current) way to make the turret (without affecting other units) take longer to build is to increase it's cost. PA needs a separate buildTime property for units so build time is not tied to the cost.
  13. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    650
    Eh, the metalcost / buildpower is the time it takes to build, unless your stalling eco. I think the basic defence towers might be too powerfull AND too cheap and if you don't watch out they totally make basic units entirely useless. There is 1 thing tough, you might be able to build them up quickly, but if you want some actual coverage then you need to walk and that costs you your time then. So protecting 1 point really hard is easy, protecting all sides just enough is something else (unless your playing on bullshit terrain maps, basicly every map except moons afaik).
  14. nateious

    nateious Active Member

    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    212
    I think once we get more T1 arty options (like the grenadier unit) we'll find that turrets aren't quite as hard to deal with at T1, since there will be a way to deal with walled off turrets at T1.
  15. bobucles

    bobucles Post Master General

    Messages:
    3,388
    Likes Received:
    558
    Unit cost and build time are inexorably linked in PA, which creates its own set of issues. Fortunately, base turrets can be fixed in an alternate way.

    Make base weapons require energy to fire. That way you can have a low cost, efficient base defense which experiences its full cost when active. Do away with this inflated stat garbage.
    nateious likes this.
  16. nateious

    nateious Active Member

    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    212
    The only issue I can see here is how do you find a reasonable balance on the energy cost to fire the turret, make it too expensive and you can't afford to throw one up early in the game to help with raids. Make it too cheap and it won't really matter.
  17. bobucles

    bobucles Post Master General

    Messages:
    3,388
    Likes Received:
    558
    Well. Start by putting some energy storage on the turret (no not with the gun what are you thinking Uber, it is a base structure and base structures should share).

    Deciding the energy drain is simple. Say you have a turret that is worth 600 metal of "lethality" but only costs 300 metal to build. Make the weapon cost 300 metal worth of energy to fire (this is 400 energy). If the same turret was 150 up front it would take 450 metal to fire (this is 600 energy). EZPZ. In the end both turrets cost roughly the same to work, except one is easier to deploy and thus more useful on defense.

    It's not as though a base turret is made to be 100% active. They only fire a small fraction of the time, so even a huge demand can be soaked up with a little bit of storage.
    nateious likes this.

Share This Page