What is the difference between current T2 balance and SupCom experimentals?

Except in cost, which is why it's asinine to compare it "1-to-1" with any other unit. Unless I'm misinterpreting "1-to-1" here.

Any combat unit can do that 1 point of damage that tips the Commander over the edge and wins you the game. In terms of your victory, how efficient has that unit been for its cost?

You missed the point completely. I am not saying that advanced = experimental, I am saying that on one hand the developers hate the idea of adding big stompy units because it will invalidate all smaller units... and then go on to add direct upgrades that invalidate basic units.
In one situation, they don't want a tech race that replaces other units but in the other situation they want a "strategic" decision that replaces other units.

I don't think they hate anything. However I think the main balance-reason for no experimental units is not that they replace lower tech units (as the discussion before proves, I don't believe they generally do that anyway) but rather that super units tend to occur in very small numbers. Usually just 1 or maybe 2. So instead of fights with huge armies you fight with 1 or 2 units. The current t2 is not like that. You quickly spam t2 just as much as you spam t1.

The unit grows less efficient the more it costs, and will win the game at a later theoretical stage due to it's availablity compared to a more efficient, lower-costed variant.

Thus, an argument for balance. Which is why every single RTS game under the sun lists resource cost (be it time, Metal, Flux Capacitors or the like) as a factor for balancing a unit against another. Even between tiers.

I don't see anywhere that point you made is even brought up.

All I was trying to do is point out that in one circumstance unit obsolescence is a reason not to add something and in another circumstance it is an acceptable feature.

It doesn't make sense.

Absolutely! It happens all the time with regular play. Players like you and me can divide our attention between multiple fronts at the same time - most folks cannot. They aren't microing their units all the time. So it happens.

And when it does, a single sheller can rip through an army composed of anything except t2 vehicles in moments.

One.

That's it. When you have, say, 10 of them, the only thing able to stop them is gunships or heavily microed Sniper Bots.

It's not rare. It's a regular occurrence. Should T2 give you an advantage over your enemy? Yep. Should that involve leaving them utterly helpless, like it does now?

Nah.

Sorry but no matter how you look at it a single sheller is not equal in power to a t4 unit by a pretty big margin.

Except that unit obsolescence is not the reason that speaks against t4, or at least not the only one. t4 plays pretty different as stated above.

You're right - it isn't. But the huge difference between T2 and T1 certainly makes it easy to use T2 in that way.

I am not saying that t4 is anything less than vastly different--only that unit obsolescence IS a reason to leave out experimentals while it is not a reason to have a well-rounded vs specialized tech tree.

It's simply not the only reason and most likely not THE reason why T4 is not in.

So since it is not the only reason, it is no longer a valid argument to apply towards other similar situations?

Sup-com T1 is also weaker then ''basic'' afaik.

Why is this important?
I am just saying that there is a difference in application of reasoning between two very comparable situations.
This thread isn't "what is the difference between PA and SupCom" but "Why is unit obsolescence OK with tech levels, but not massive experimentals?"

nanolathe, I think you're just missing the difference between a T1 Tank and a T2+ unit and ignoring 2 major points. Unit cost and the economy of the game. Both of these factor into what makes a unit better at its role and when its role changes.


In PA currently, the T2 tank is a straight upgrade to the T1 tank after you can afford to build T2 tanks like T1 tanks. But until that point they have similar but very different roles. The T1 tank is the core of your army, it can be broken up into multiple forces and attack multiple locations across the world all at once. The T2 tank takes a long time to reach this point. Normally, you'd need to be running a full T2 economy on an entire world to be throwing away T2 tanks like T1 tanks. And until that point the T2 tank functions more as an elite unit. It's presence can sway the battle in your favor as it is a concentrated force, but it will not be able to split up to clean up all the escaping fabricators or mexes.

So the T2 tank is exactly like the T1 tank except you can't build as many of them? Exhilarating. Tell me more!

I feel like there might be a little blame on both units, the T2 tank for being the same as the current T1 tank, and the T1 tank for also being a unit without many roles to begin with, of which can be made specialised.

Have you never noticed that once light and advanced laser tanks are in range of one another, only 5 light lasers are needed for victory, but 1 advanced laser is much better at killing buildings than 5 light lasers?

5 light lasers can converge against a single target or diverge against multiple targets. 1 advanced laser can only converge on one target.

The difference is not as simple as you sarcastically describe. It could of coursw be solved by making the laser tank cost the same as an advanced tank and be one unit with 5 weapon banks vs 1.

But then you lose the potentially interesting differences that firepower decreases every amount of Health decreased, and the fact that a single leveller survives for less time against another Leveller than 3 Ants do.

Yeah, so heavy slow weapons deal overkill against light swarmy things, while splash damage deals mega damage against light swarmy things. That's not exactly a new development. Does it justify making two things that are exactly the same, except one is bigger? How many times should a unit be copied and enlarged before one realizes they're wasting their time? Not everything in the universe needs a small and large variant.

Many of us agree on this, but I am willing to accept this as an inevitability so long as things are sidegrades.