Metal Sliders!

WOOT.








Thank you for the awesome UBER
I had over 3000 units near the end - this game ended in Nuke-Spam but armies played a big role, as did factory spam.

Too soon IMO.

Mike

To say the effect it'll have?
This was a pretty fun game, just rampantly expanding.
I've yet to play a metal-scarce game but I've been designing systems
I think the primary stumbling block with lots of Metal is Nukes being spammed several times a minute.

The problem is that we're stilling trying to figure out balance, if everyone can not set thier own Economy stuff we can't accurately judge balance as a group anymore unless there is a concerted effort to use specific settings.

Mike

they don't seem to have much effect atm to how much metal is around...

I get what you're saying, but mechanics like being able to pump out Nukes are never going to be good for balancing Armies/Navies/Airforces, regardless of whether you need a small patch of land or an entire planet's economy to do so.
I think Nuke Factories should be un-assistable, like Catapults. That way you'd need a load of Factories, and couldn't drown an opponent in Nuke-Spam.

I'd encourage you to fiddle in the System Editor and then load the map in a Game to see how the Metal Sliders affect planets

Now we'll have to start every balance discussion with "What are you Metal Sliders at?" because what it's set to can effect how things play out, it's not linear like one would expect.

Mike

Doesn't seem much different than when people used to play 1v1's on huge maps like Seton's Clutch in SupCom.

Plus now we can have a lot more variety in our maps and game styles.

Maybe the community can come up with a default metal setting that is used specifically for balance related discussion?

That's.....kinda my point, it's such a different shift in gameplay that it isn't really as useful in a balance discussion.

This is Uber's Job to set the "baseline" not ours. We can help them with testing and what not but they're designing the game.

Mike

Alright, fair enough, so Uber can come up with a default.

Or maybe the game should be balanced to accommodate different levels of metal saturation for more varied gameplay without creating any major balance issues, and therefore should not be balanced for any specific level of metal abundance.
Well, that's my take on it anyway.

I agree. That's why I feel unlimited Assisting, particularly on Nukes, is disruptive and impossible to balance.

I disagree with your reasoning. We already have crazy amounts of metal with default settings and T2 mex. I don't think that's the issue.
I think one of Uber's changes in the latest build is a good idea to apply here; much more energy efficient factories compared to fabricators. Assisting a nuke should drain energy much faster, making it less economically viable to do so.

Well that would be best, but is it feasible? Then it comes down to the idea of which is better, a well Balanced Game with a certain metal amount or a Game that tried to accommodate different levels of metal and maybe didn't do it all that well.

Mike

It's not about long-term economic viability, it's an Arms Race to end the game. You typically only need one nuke to be built at a time currently - it's the speed at which you can build them which grants the win.

I think a streaming economy is more robust regarding economy levels. An extra mex isn't going to eradicate '9pool' and make '11pool' the new meta, because you can start construction at any point and contribute build power to it at your whim, making progression through your build queue more fluid.

Different planet sizes have a much greater effect on the game since it changes your ability to raid with T1 units, or the influence air units can have, but we've become accustomed to it just because it's been the tradition since alpha and other games. Or the FFA/team balance where it's almost accepted that some games have to be balanced for 1v1 matches and ignore 2v2 or 3v3 games.

No, not if antinukes are considerably cheaper. Remember to scout as well.
If your opponent has spent enough resources to power all those fabbers in this situation and then build that nuke, having scouted it early should give you ample opportunity to either destroy it or defend from it.

What about armies moving across the map? What about not having to cover every square inch of base with Anti-Nukes?
Building Nukes doesn't currently mean risking your safety against an incoming army. You can turtle and put your economy entirely into Nukes whilst Nuking anything that comes your way.