Stream in about 1 hour: Balance games w/ Community

I'm gonna have to dig into that...

FYI The balance changes are not part of the latest released build (https://forums.uberent.com/threads/gamma-build-64498.58901/)

A DLT does 320 dps, an Inferno costs 225 and has 750 health, a Combat Fabber costs 720 and repairs 60/s (and 2000 energy/s), so.... *crunching sound*

You need 720 metal worth of Combat Fabbers to counter the damage of one 450M DLT, not to mention 14 metal extractors worth of metal. Also, combat fabbers are 3x more energy efficient than normal T1 fabbers and 3/5th as expensive for the amount of metal production you get, so you hardly need T1 bot fabbers at all.

LOL, nice find. Did not realize that changed. This means you can rush t2 even harder because the energy efficiency of t2 is actually available on t1 via the combat fabbers. Or maybe use it on t1 to make factories for less energy build cost. Might make it possible to do a much harder t1 punch quicker.

I just woke up from a deep sleep to find this.

Clearly something uber whispered to me from beyond the veil of sleep... 'Awesome is happening, awake, awaaaaake'

Needing a third of the power gens should be enough to jumpstart just about anyone's starting build. In fact, it's better than the Commander. And it's much cheaper to build combat fabbers than T2 fabbers for the amount of build power you get. (1440 vs. 4800).

Adv. Combat fabbers sadly aren't as cost effective. Would be fun if they built in line with other T2 units, but instead it's only three times as much as a basic combat fabber, despite T2's exorbitant build costs.

Nukes are objectively cheaper compared to a T2 economy. Not by much...
And fireflies don't have a laser? Is that a bug in colin's database?

no noticed that will playing as well

So the Peregrine is still ridiculously OP
Can someone please point that out to Uber?.

Not sure what you what you mean by that. Looking at the stats, they ditched the AoE, and it has 15x the cost of a Hummingbird for only 7x the HP, 10X the DPS, and less speed. So, strange as it is to say, the Hummingbird is actually superior in that build.

What isn't shown in those stats is that the Peregrine has splash damage on it's weapon, making it far more effective vs. large blobs of aircraft.

I enjoyed watching these matches but I think things are still going into the opposite direction of what most us here want. T2 rush seems to be even more inevitable now.
~100 mex/sec T2 extractors are insane. In fact, I would really like a experiment without any T2 mex. Map control should be king. Keep it simple.

Either way thanks for all the effort by Uber and the players/casters.

That's what he's saying. They removed the splash, halfed the DPS, and reduced the speed by 15 while quadrupling the cost.

Ah, I see . I thought pa-db simply didn't show splash (not sure why I thought that).

I agree with this.

T2 rush is even more important than it was previously. First person to get to T2 just soars away from their opponents.

Like what Zaphod said in the cast, and like what we've been saying for some time now. If you see your opponent going Advanced, you HAVE to go advanced. The only options are to go advanced, or snipe the advanced factory – and sniping the Advanced Factory is normally not an option.

The new changes just make the whole situation worse.

Everyone that I've talked to hates the current T2 rush meta game. It's boring and binary.

I really hope Uber nerfs T2 down majorly, so it's specialization, not an upgrade. Then the game will be all about massive armies, unit movement, and intel – not a tech race.

There was a really good conversation after a few games where everyone highlighted how having a tiny t2 base that's more effective then having complete map control is just silly and how to fix it (from multiple angles).

Hopefully it gets passed down the pipe; since I think only meta was there at that point.

And, to noone's surprise, most of the issues mentioned were those brought up by the community after viewing the changes in a livestream.

Lesson learned, let's move on to a brighter day with better balance.

At 24 metal currently, it was obvious t2 mex was a huge problem.

Why they boosted it to 100 (even though costs more i guess) is beyond me.

you never know till you playtest.

I still stand by the build being superior to old rusty we had (still have with ammended utilities?) for the last month.

a useful note, anyone notice advanced factories stand up to a barrage of ant fire, 8 ants sustained for 10 seconds brings it to half maybe? Considering its not rare for commander to assist t2 construct and assist, its hard to believe you can take one over half built down. That's one of my concerns.

t1 valid throughout game is good. I personally like combat fabbers being more efficient by 1 unit of energy or so, it is actually a tactical addition to the game to use them as efficient assist as one of their roles, just not to their large extreme. Technically, peregrines are as good as people asked for, not what is choose but not the best cost to power anymore. Turrets are killable even can use t1 dox to get it done despite walls.

you asked for certain things everyone, this build grants you more than it hurts. For what it hurts it actually just adds unnecesary skill curve in wrong place, teching. Teching becomes more the skill competitive players practice to compete sadly, but at least the rest of the game is a breath of fresh air and teching isn't immediate so you can enjoy a game play out little longer before cheapness ruins it.

I agree. As a short term improvement it seems good.

In regards to T2 balancing I was thinking of a thought experiment. Imagine if T2 units are built at the basic fac i.e. there is no adv fac. How would you balance the game?

Hmmm.....

In other words

"What if we turn PA into Zero-K?"

Which really isn't a bad idea...

In fact, it's a great idea...

Do it.