What if Vanguards did zero damage?

Build more stingers?

Exactly! Build different units with different roles. This is why a mobile radar needs a dedicated unit instead of putting one on the vanguard.

Within reason. There's only so many Skitters you will ever want to build when they could have been something useful. There's a reason I built fighters to fulfil that role. Over specialisation

i think the vangaurd should have less attack strength

wat? i was just adding my 2 cents

In retrospect, that was an aggressive sounding stance I took, but I am not that agressive about it nor do I feel aggressive about people using it. I honestly don't consider it very big a deal.

Maybe as a Vanguard, I am being over-aggressive well, now that I got that pun out the way...

I just personally feel inferno drops were strong enough back when pelicans were t1. Now, I feel like Vanguards don't need their weapon to do their intended role, while people can just go back to using infernos for that role. If they removed the weapon, do you think people would stop building Vanguards? By themself, yes, but in a group of factories, people would still build 1-4 vanguards for their unit blob.

Speaking of pelicans, they would be fine in t1 if their speed was slower than humminbird's, ~0.75 slower.

All air could really be slower tbh. They could be little faster than land or even slightly or as fast as bots. They are still air so they don't need a non-attack bonus on top of a blink-of-an-eye speed, they can attack without retaliation AND do so before someone can react.

i tought it was 1 vanguard to kill a comm?

Yes, but they don't do damage....


So people still build 1-4 vanguards for their unit blob, for the cheap health (i.e. shots on the Vanguard are wasted)

And along comes the AI with it's crazy things, and it figures out that firing on Vanguards causes it to lose, but not firing on Vanguards cause it to win.

And you've got a situation where the AI's micro simply means that vanguards are not shot at, so they aren't doing the job they are supposed to be doing.

make vanguards block shots. Literally. Like walls do.

you don't choose to fire on walls and lose a t1 army, you have no choice but to fire on the wall. If you could choose to ignore the wall shoot the turret, that would be the plan yeah.

Vanguard is slow

• open to flanking

Wall is 2-D

• Open to Shellers and Bombers.

Vanguards roles change throughout the game. In the beginning they are op for killing bases and late game op for killing proxys. I don't think they themselves are op. But coupled with pelicans they are formidable.

We are starting to learn to play against them but it is very difficult. and we are still quite bad at using them too. Wait until we drop at several proxy bases at the same time.

Turret is slow

• Impossible to flank using

To clarify, that's the vanguards use as a wall.

Were you suggesting it was? I am not sure what you were suggesting. Vanguards are open to kiting as well. Or long range pecking. Or air attacks.

If you sort of drop one next to a commander assisted with absurd peregrine support which you leave lying around just to counter absurd enemy peregrine numbers, then it sort of kills it for a pretty cheap price and mild difficulty. I say mild, because when the two nukes are done before 1 enemy antinuke, they take no effort, just dump them onto the commander, but still.

Kjjñnnnñnnkknk pppppphhhghhhHm ###$##$$


What a pocket dial. Sorry guys.

Trophy, somewhere up the thread someone suggested removing the Vanguards weapon. A number of people pointed out that then there is no reason to attack the Vanguard, rendering it useless in its role as a 'tank'.

A counter argument was that it would physically block your shots.

However, it's vulnerable to flanking, bombers and anything that fires parabolicly rather than directly. So if the weapon was to be removed, it still wouldn't have any reason to be targeted.

Plus the wall 'should' be a total block on everything. So neither side would have any reason to buikd the direct fire units.

No thx. I like vanguards that can toast marshmallows.

All I want to add to this is that the whole concept that you can drop one vanguard on a Commander and kill it seems a little silly to me. And this isn't a biased call, I've never been killed by one. It just seems... unbalanced.

Typically you need two for the guaranteed kill, but yeah. The solution may just be to make them be untransportable.