What if Vanguards did zero damage?

This might sound crazy at first but stay with me a little longer.

We can agree that Vanguards are over powered at the present. A drop of three Vanguards close to your Commander and you're done.

However, we need a unit capable to break into fortified bases. So, how to fix it?

What if Vanguards did zero damage, but instead affected the target with a penalty like doubled damage for 30 seconds if hit by enemy fire?

Vanguards are basically plasma thrower and we can imagine units in the Universe of PA being made primarily of metal. So heat couldn't do much to their armors, but soften it up. Well, this is just for the imagination.

What does it matter is that this way we can still use the Vanguards as Aries to break through walls and fortified bases as much as we do now. But in order to have any result, you would need to back the Vanguard up with other units. Which is what we want: variety.

As a collateral effect, a simple Vanguards drop would no longer work, unless we mix up the squad with other units as well. But then it would make much more sense, since you worked more organically to deliver a decisive strike to the enemy, and not just rush T2.

What do you think?

While I agree that your basic idea can be interesting, the penalty you suggest is arbitrary and unnecessarily complex.
Just the idea of a very tough damage "sponge" you put in front of your army is sufficient, you don't need to overcomplicate it.

Just decrease the damage they do by 50%+-20%. It will be still devastating and their strength is their hit points. But it can be balanced. And the counter of a Vanguard drop is not killing the Vanguards, it is killing the transports before they drop.

You are saying make vanguard a "Mobile Wall"?....

Yeah a little over complicated. Maybe have it as a combat fabber. Cause 50hp does not scream combat fabber to me.

...Nah too much hp for combat fabber. But far too strong. Perfect if we had no pelicans. But we do.

I like their role as high health damage sponges that are placed at the front of armies. What about them having a sort of scoop at the front so they could push/damage/destroy other units or defences out of the way? This could be useful for minesweeping as well- if Uber decides to make mines invisible.

Edit: Kinda like this.

What if we removed the gun altogether?

No weapon at all. Just a lot of health and a radar.

Naturally it'd need a speed boost.

naah then you can remove the unit and give the health to the other t2 units directly. I like them and except for the drops, which are quite powerful, they are not to strong imo.

Part of why you focus It is it's high close range damage though

Were Sumo or Can drops used in TA?

I think that the best thing to do would be to nerf wall hp by 50% and then nerf vanguards accoardingly. I've always said it: vanguards are op but they need to be op because walls are more op..

If it does not deal any damage then why bother attacking it? The vanguard needs to deal damage in order to fulfill his role.

Nah they weren't used. The sumo or can that is. Or core really. By your average TA gamer. Maverick drops and roach bombs are used quite a lot. The Ui and the speed of the drop was also a major issue. That's why roaches were the main transported unit. They could explode in the air and do crazy damage.

Remember too we are playing in a planet. You can be attacked from all sides. Unlike TA. Even if you off screened to the opposite corner. It would be shot down before it made the drop.

100 metal, 20,000 energy combat fabber.
Deconstructs everything! But burns a small sun's worth of energy to do it.

Why not let them reclaim instead of flame? They would make mince meat of walls, but won't overwhelm commanders in one shot. Their builtin radar would work really with this for minesweeping and fortification removal, maybe I've it anti air capabilities, to allow for some t2 anti air?

more micro.

guys this is a generality : no game, no game in the word needs your help to develop micro elements. All it needs is a competitive multiplayer scene. Trust me. They'll conjure up micro you never even could have supsected the game had out of thin air.

this is why, in the spirit of making it macro-focused, we need to eradicate gimmik-made micro, so the only micro left, is the one conjured up from thin air, to keep the micro level down and help make room for macro.

With a game this scale, with so many playing fields and units and faces on the maps, there already is an infinite amount of 'thin air' micro that can be invented.

no need to help it out.

If we need a balance change at all, and I'm not convinced that we do, I think it would be interesting to see them made even slower. You would still get the excitement of pulling off a good drop, but they would have trouble taking down the entire base or chasing a commander if they were basically just droppable turrets.

Yeah, like if the transports are made to be, you know not broken, then the drops will be nerfed by design as transports have to actually drop their cargo off.

I really, really, really like the vanguard and would actually rather just make it more expensive or longer to build....maybe make the overall unit bigger and so a bigger target too.

I loved using Can drops, but Cans were very different units... they had some respectable range as well as damage!

GAAT lasers for the win and all that.

I disagree.

First, we already micro Vanguards anyway. If Vanguards will behave differently in game, unlikely that would increase the micro we already do with them for the very reason that they are so powerful. On the contrary, perhaps taking away some of their "super powers", will reduce microing.

Second, if there is no need to help it out, perhaps we should all go somewhere else, doing something more relevant for our society, than spending hours and days in here, speculating on a video game, for the sake of nothing, since you make us feel pretty useless.