Imperial Victus/Imperial Delta difference ?

FYI, if you look at the early test stuff......

The delta already had the ability to open is shoulder flaps, but that animation was nixed due to commander abilitys not making the cut.

All Uber really did is change out the arms....


I understand there is a deadline, ( even though they say when its done, but there is still a deadline-ish).
As a backer myself, I like the added bonuses that being a backer provides.
But the main reason I became a backer was because several of the devs had worked on the previous TA games and this look like a very promising TA dream team and I was and still am very confident that Uber will put out a very nice product.



Unless its part of the lore of the game, such in integral unit like the commander should be significantly different from the next commander.


If the trend continues... Welcome to the clone wars.

to be totaly honest .. i think basicly copying the delta and renaming it the invictus just to please the whining peasants wasnt a good idea at all ... i am sry but to me, even though i dont own it, you just killed the uniqueness of the delta ... opening shoulders and lasercannon are not differentiating it enough or the invictus ... and if i were to have bought the cosmic eddition for the delta .. i might have been rather upset about it and i can imagine some others are currently too ... i realy realy hope you are not going to do the same with the other 3 exclusive commanders ...

I'm with Mike.

It's not a huge thing, but it devalues the uniqueness of the Delta commander that early backers paid for.

And i think it's a bad move to have them so similar, just because it's hard to tell them apart.

I +1 his idea for a new delta, and keeping the old delta as the freely available/Invictus.
Something spiky would be good.

(I originally figured the diff was going to be sound files for select/attack/etc. was wrong.)

Yeah i don't aprove of this choice aswell, like mike said, it's cheap. I'm beginning to lose more hope with some of the things there doing and saying lately, there choices seem to be fast made without thinking of the consequence. I understand the reasoning that uber used the commander in al promotional stuff and it looks cool non the less. But you just got the wrath of the community on your head that you promised and we paid for something unique!

Sorry uber i can't agree with you on this one.

I might lend you my signature for that end. Some day I will have a word with @martenus inquiring about the inspiration for that phrase. It surely does not come from me, although it could have for all its sense and seriousness.

On topic: I prefer the look of the Invictus over that of the Delta - but not to the point that I could live with its associated legion's name - the latter looks like he has to vent his reactor because he has anger management issues or whatever. I think one way to differentiate the two in such a way that the Delta's iconic look is preserved while still having him standout might be to grant him a new and exclusive weapon - for normal and Uber-cannon both.
Something along the lines of a an Antilathe Cannon - reverse-engineering its targets on destruction; read: play unit construction animation in reverse on unit death.
Or mount a weapon on each arm and have two little automatic nanolathe drones (cosmetic only, no real entities) that normally reside in his shoulders.

I see.

When others had concerns about the game that you folks did not approve, those where people to be banned from the Forum (not all of you, of course, but that appeared to be a trend). They were negative *without* valid reasons.

Now that you care about something, here it comes a new wave of *negativity*. But now it is fine.

I'm not saying that your point isn't relevant. But I hope you do realize that this is something that do not minimally affect the game-play, and therefore can be postponed after release.

If you open up a little bit, you may also realize that there was no other solutions for the Delta, unless you firmly believe that your opinion matters, and the opinion of the *whining peasants* does not.

I agree on something, though. People who bought the Cosmic Edition so that to have the Delta back deserve a bit more love from Uber. If they will, all the early backers will have a new really unique Commander as well.

I wish you that. It just sounds fair.

But please, it's time to start respecting others' opinions and make an effort in order to see why we may have different points of view. People on Steam had valid reasons to complain about being unable to use the iconic unit that de facto represents the game. They were unhappy with what technically is just a formality, as much as you do right now. It's really just the same issue seen from two different extremes.

Beside, one of the reasons I've been critic about the 100 Custom Commanders, is that for my understanding, the whole operation may have damaged the game, instead of bring in any real benefit.

Factoring a hundred of custom units, dealing back and forward with the customer on the other side, may have delayed other aspects of the game and it may be one of the factors in play that made impossible for Uber to dedicate resources in order to develop stuffs like the Unit Cannon or Gas Planets or submarines, etc.

In exchange of a small additional budget Uber had an overload of work so close to a forthcoming deadline inhibiting the Devs in including something else in the release build, like a better Orbital game-play. You name it, could be everything and anything.

This is not a critic toward who bought a Custom Commander on Kickstarter. Those people paid good money for a product that Uber promised and surely has to honor at some point. Uber committed to realize those Custom Commanders and has to do it. That's simple.

But Uber promised also the Unit Cannon, and few other things as well. And some of those other things did not make in into the release build so far.

I let you decide which could have been more important to the eyes of the majority of the customers. And which could have impacted on the game-play more, if the 100 Custom Commanders or the Unit Cannon (for example) and which will ultimately help scoring a better review at the end of May.

If Uber did what it did, they surely had few valid reasons. So It is as it is.

Nevertheless, the Delta vs Invictus issue it really looks like not a priority for Uber at the moment. More important aspects of the game could be discussed, assuming we still have the time to influence Uber in doing even better before the end of May.

in what way do 100 custom commanders that go to 100 differnt players, each getting only 1, do damage the game ... do you think the comms that the winners of the battle of the beasts tourney get will also damage the game? again in what way?
the unitcannon is not as important as you think ... sure it is helpful but solves only a rather small ammount of problems ...
i see no problem in those custom comms ... the only thing that is currently a bit of a thorn in my eyes is the delta vs invictus issue

I'm personally not all that happy that the people who backed the project with $90 upwards during the kickstarter or bought the cosmic edition are getting basically a slightly modified version of a commander which is now available for everyone (Feels like uber are taking the really lazy way out of the problem that they caused for themselves by using the delta as the face for most of their advertising).

I have a suggestion for how the issue could be fixed. I'm sure that we have a heap of people in this community that are really talented when it comes to either creating concept art or straight out making models. So why doesnt uber or someone else make a thread where people can post their concept art or models and the community can vote for their favourite piece. The voted fave should then effictively save uber some time when it comes to designing a new delta and it makes sure the a majority of the community is happy with the delta redesign.

In my opinion this is a win win situation. Uber doesnt have to spend too much extra time on redesigning the delta and this also makes sure that a majority of high end backers will be happy with the redesign.

It might not be tangible benefit to the construction base game features ( unit cannon/ orbital units/ etc.)

But the added experience the art team gets in designing multiple commanders is paying dividends in the future art construction and assets. The artists and engineers are getting a ton of experience in that area and thus, can make it easier for other art assets to flow into the game once it's complete.

It may look like on the surface that it doesn't seem to do much to add to the experience in the game currently, but I think its giving the art team more time to get into the PA style and engine and produce quality products. The art assets of units are looking better and better with each pass.

I think the highest quality building right now is the Deep space radar with the opening and closing. Eventually when the commanders are done, those guys can really start producing results on other units in game.

EDIT: TYpoe

That might be true at some degree, but we are still far from a tangible benefit to the game for everyone.

In fact, what's the real added benefit to design 100 different variations of the same unit, which only 100 players will be able to see and use (one for each, not even all 100), when this might have prevented the design and realization of a few dozen new units so that the game will be richer for everyone?

It looks like you guys are running a bit short of arguments. It sounds like me when I was working for free in order to *make experience*.

I started to learn better when I finally realized that I had to focus on what does it really matter.

I'm observing this mess with the Custom Commanders in its whole since a couple of months and there is no side that doesn't look like a boomerang waiting to strike Uber back in the gut.

There is no benefit from a Custom Commander that only an elite can use. It is just bad marketing, it causes discontent.

In fact, you aren't happy as well, even if you are *the elite*

In this sense, I applaud the decision of Uber to make it simple, at least for the moment being, with the Delta.

Too bad for the ones who paid more. I wish them to get something worthy in return. But they are ultimately victims of a short-sighted marketing strategy.

Ok, I don't get the problem.

My counter argument was mainly for this point:

The work that the dev's and art team accomplish towards getting those commanders done is still beneficial to Uber and everyone.

I personally like the custom commanders, it probably motivated Uber to produce a lot of art assets in the process of making those commanders. Does this benefit us? I believe so. Does it do it in a reasonable time period? Hard to say. It's hard to find out man hours required when you are making awesome kick starter goals with no tangible idea about how difficult they may be.

I backed before alpha and couldn't care less. If there is whingeing and they are making 100 custom commanders anyway, perhaps they'll make one more and give it to the backers. The $ I pledged weren't so I could get commanders, it was so the game would be made!

Normally you're zoomed well out anyway. Perhaps we need a little picture-in-picture of the commander in a corner of the screen, once they've gotten multiple PIP's working. That way you'd see if he was in strife and would see his detailed design in all its glory...

Absolutely!

you guys not caring ,while fine and totaly ok, doesnt´make others think the same...
while i dont care about the delta or the 100 customcomms either
i do care about moves that the public and customers may take the wrong way and that as we know happened quite a few times with this game already even if some of those issues were of minor importance and we have seen how a good amount of people reacted to that minor stuff



gotta friggin love that movie

I'm thinking a couple of you would be pretty surprised by how much internal convos we've had about The Armory, Custom Commanders, and our Reward Commanders. We take it seriously for a variety of reasons.

We made the new Delta (that some of you may have) in an effort to make sure we delivered on the model we initially showed off. The Delta's upraised wings were a big part of that character in general, if you remember. We feel like the wings are distinctive, cool, and true to the character.

The Invictus is a faction leader and is being offered just like the others. As for its wings? It was a design decision that speaks to the nature of the character. Invictus is utilitarian and practical, yet has an almost ... regal quality.

As for using Invictus (or "old Delta") in our marketing materials, by the way -- Planetary Annihilation was made possible because tens of thousands of awesome people helped us make it. Using a Commander that could only be built because of that is a symbol of appreciation.

Brad, I don't mean to nit-pick but you guy didn't "make" anything for the "new" Delta at all, the flaps were always present.

Also while I'm sure you guys had plenty of discussions about the several, different, topics you listed, those aren't really what were talking about here.

I do honestly wish to have been present in the meeting(s) that result in the decision to simply copy&paste the Delta if only so I can better understand the reasoning because from out here it's really really awkward as I've already explained over the course of the thread.

Mike

So people don't like the new victus as it's too similar to the delta?

You can be as dismissive as you want, but the reason Delta and Invictus have different flaps is as explained. The move also opened up a point of differentiation between the two.

There's a variety of points being brought up.