will the Unit Cannon be added in Gamma?

Yeah, well, it's not only the unit cannon. Naval and gas giants are in limbo too, it seems.

Naval seems to be taking a few steps back from the very first Kickstarter goal, and I strongly suspect that NO SUBS means half-baked naval combat. And then why bother with water planets if naval is no good? It doesn't seem like gas giants are going to be in the game anytime soon either, probably not at launch, again contrary to the Kickstarter goals.

I get that the game changes in development and they need to finish on a limited budget, but these really are major, unwelcome design changes from what the pre-Steam people backed. I also suspect that most people on the forum are not yet aware of the above changes.

Uber says that they'll still support the game afterward. Unit cannons, "first class" naval support, and gas giants are still on the table for after launch. But how? Any plans on that? If they aren't somehow getting paid for the updates (that were supposed to be part of the basic game), they're not going to happen. You always have to choose getting paid over free labor. So I hope we start seeing an expansion/DLC/semisequel push soon after launch.

How do you know that all of these features won't be in the game at release ?
Personally the only thing I believe to know is that release is still at least more than half a year away.

I don't know what will be in the game at launch, and I hope I'm entirely wrong. But stuff Uber have said leads me to believe that they have to make certain cuts to get the game out in a realistic fashion at all, and I think some of those cuts are going to kind of suck. Again, I hope I'm entirely wrong and we'll just see when we get there. So that makes me wonder how after launch support will be paid for, as I'd like to pay for it. (again)

I'm not going to lie. If at all possible, I'd like to see it in the most basic version of this game, release, instead of installing Red Alert 2 and just wishing it were Yuri's Revenge.

I would support delaying release as long as possible to get it, or continuing to stagger release by adding another test phase where physical backer rewards start coming except hard copies of the game as well as the server side, but continuing on working on special cases like balance and unit cannon.

I however understand, phase names including gamma and release and patch versions are all just names. Devs are helped when they can get a solid featured fully functional release out, to build on to such as unit cannon. They have a reason and its unfortunate we can't live in a perfect world. My suggestion of staggered release would be my best hopes on the subject, because there is a reason things get built this way.

it is like rappeling, it is counter intuitive because what you think or want isn't how it is. You want to hold your body up on a wall when rappelling, but you slip because gravity is what the rope takes care of, what you don't understand is your legs simply hold you backwards, so you push against the wall not up from the wall.

it is counter intuitive, but form follows function.

My concern regarding a post-release unit cannon involves the reaction of the press/public who aren't having this conversation right now. How will they take it? I've had to talk to the new guys in-game. They ask about the Unit Cannon more times than I can count, and I have to keep saying, 'it's not on their priority list right now.'

How would they react if we told every new guy who asked that it wasn't in the full release?

I'd be mega disappointed. It might even be a headline.

Just imagine PC gamer - Planetary Annihilation releases with awesome features, massive player influx - but some promised features aren't included?

Talk about negative press.

I think the unit cannon will be in the "final" release.

They just released gamma with so many new features they have to iron out, shortly after that they might focus on the unit cannon again.
They have not even announced a release date yet.

Potentially

Well they did say Gamma would focus on social aspects of the game, and multi planet starts. they will likely focus on the units and stuff during this "Rho" phase (whatever the hell it is).


though, simply nuking a planet to make a beachhead doesnt adress one key issue:

what do we do if he's spamming air for defense? yeah, we can nuke the air bastards out of the sky, but unless we can nuke the main base, they'll just keep coming.

In that situation, I believe the only remaining way is either hitting his planet with a KEW or snipe him using Death from Above (that orbital laser, I don't remember the new name )

This is increasingly beginning to worry me. I would like some official word on this topic, after all these are major game features (including subs and amphibious units as stated in the kickstarter campaign) which made me raise as much money as I did.

Subs are out because they need to make the underwater layer work... this is all work in progress... no one said that subs will not make it back into the game.

Since there is no underwater layer yet, subs make no sense, they cannot dive. This is also the reason why ship wrecks are on top of the water and not sinking to the ground.

Well, here's what Mavor said about subs:

I just disagree that in a game of this scope that subs are that important. I would put them in the "nice to have" category but they aren't nearly as core to this game as a lot of other stuff. There are many planets that don't even have water on them.

Now that's not to say they will never be back but there are so many other things I consider more important for the game.

AND

Personally I've come to the conclusion that subs just aren't needed. They will probably make another appearance but I think we are going to continue balancing the game without them. Naval is already kinda screwy so once we get that sorted we will take another look at subs.

I consider the above statement versus the Kickstarter goal to be a pretty significant change in direction:

We want to not only support naval units but to do a great job at it. Likewise we want great support for water in the engine and the ability to create amazing planets that are largely water. First class support for naval means you will be able to have a combination of water and land planets as well as ice asteroids. Huge water only planets to play out all kinds of naval only scenarios will also be supported. Asteroid tsunamis FTW! Some of the water units we can expect include subs, amphibious units, floating buildings and of course battleships!

So "first class" becomes "nice to have." Who knows how this will end up in a year or so, but I do think that a big difference in people's expectations should be explained with more than a shrug. I'm a bit skeptical about this, since it kinda seems that important plans for the game are slipping in priority. We'll see, I suppose.

To any of the Vanguard guys, if someone could ask a dev about this stuff that would be helpful. Unit cannons, gas giants, and real naval - will it be in the game for launch or probably not? Then we'll at least know either way instead of guessing on the forum about it.

It's almost like the game design evolves over time...

Yeah ... and it's almost like I'm asking if they still plan to stick to that game design they said they'd do ...

Aren't you supposed to be somewhere else right now posting SOON pictures?

Game design evolution is nice and fine, but pulling core features which were promised is
a big no-no in my opinion. To me those features are just as essential as planet smashing - what
would you say if that was suddenly being left out?

Mindlessly sticking to something stated before anything was in place would be stupid. If subs don't work then pull subs. But let's note here that they haven't said they're pulling subs, so what's the hooha?

And there's no universe in which subs are a core feature. The fact that they were part of a stretch goal should tell you that.

As for whether or not it's a full-on, 100% hooha ... that's debatable. But you're right - nobody has come right out and said "Look, we're trying but we can't do everything here. We can't make good on the subs or the unit cannon - YET."

So actually, I am asking them to come on out and say that. I'd like them to just say one way or the other, and not somewhere buried in the forum or 7 hours into the livestream-a-thon. It matters to the backers.

People paid quite a bit of money for those stretch goals so they're not exactly optional. I'm not expecting it to implemented precisely to the letter (ice asteroids? tsunamis? not gonna happen), but if you're calling subs nice to have but unnecessary, you can't also call it first rate naval. That's not even close. You can't pull subs without pretty much pulling that stretch goal. I had wanted to see naval really done right since TA so pulling the rug from beneath that one is a downer. So where are we on that one? It can't be both.

And that's only one issue. So now that there's kind of an Endangered Features list, my concern is that Uber appears to be backing off of those goals. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask them what's up. No excessive hooha intended.

Well, I hope for sure that underwater is still important, I still hope that we can build mass and energy underwater like in TA... and that we need Torp-Bombers to hit submerged targets.

What I am reading out of this (with other Mavor statements I saw and read) that they might finish the game to a certain state... but Subs and underwater will make it in... I would be really surprised if not.

I remember one statement of him during a live stream where he said that Subs will be back once they made the underwater layer work, which is a lot of work...

well aside from the fact devs (brad) have been active here, its obvious to us its active topic and its due for a status check so will be taken into consideration. We personally discuss it amongst the vanguards outside the vanguards, but then again we discuss all orbital so itsnot unique.

that being said, naval being a first class citizen doesn't require subs until land requires subterranean units. I've always liked the concept of a two factory naval system for starters, but not essentially subs.

The unit cannon, as I stated earlier, personally boils down to something I'd like on the copy that cones on my flash drive. Sure I could put it on the flash drive later, but would still be better. For that matter, for any physical copy of release. I can see the necesity for their development that this helps though, there exists some decisions where a company can do right by fans but put themselves out of business. Not talking about the extreme EA takes it, but I would rather PA continues dev after release rather than push a bulder and hurt its longevity. Who knows exactly what the forces at work are though.