DISCUSS: How to ease beginners into PA

I certainly agree that better tutorials, tips and guides will certainly be the long term solution, but in the meantime we as a community could occasionally set up 2v2 games against normal AI and invite new players. Give tips, answer questions, smash planets. I might do this the next time I play.

I understand what you are saying, but we aren't talking about hidden secret worlds here or anything, we are talking about the complexity of the BASIC game, which everyone should be able to play without feeling confused.

The only basic thing you need to know about Mario is, jump, run, collect coins, get power ups. The map screen is INTUITIVE, press a direction, he goes there, nothing overtly overwhelming. That's about it. The basics of PA? Significantly more complicated.

If you have absolutely no idea how to play, then any pressure is too much. My first match of supcom ended with a soul ripper rush from the easy AI. And I'm sure you're aware of just how painfully awful the original supcom AI was to begin with, even before the limits put in place to make it "easy". At that time the sandbox tutorial was not around because it was the demo, the only tutorial was a link to a downloadable video, not unlike what is in PA right now except they are fancy and using youtube.

But you'll never improve without losing. The easy AI should not be letting the player win.

You can't improve on something you don't know you did wrong. The sandbox is there to let you figure out how to do things at all, then you can go up against an AI or a player to put it into practice. You probably will still lose but you understand much better why.

Speaking of Mario, the first level in SMB1 was a tutorial:
http://auntiepixelante.com/?p=465

Um, I don't know about anyone else, but I should think the AI SHOULD let you win, relatively speaking, if it is set on easy. The whole point is to make it beatable by using only basic techniques, which any beginner should know. At least, that's how I see an easy AI...

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The levels are relative to normal, not to the player. If you want the AI to let you win then Sandbox is your level!

No I'd say they are relative to the player. Hard should obviously go all out, but easy should be suitable for someone who is not very good.

Every FPSRPG made now is like that. Call of Duty is one of the biggest culprits.

And we need to make a guide for a sticky on every forum. Especially since I see people putting up 6 Planet games for a 5 player FFA on maps way to big, then people wonder why their FPS sucks. Us non-noobs (Cuz I'm not a pro ) should totally get together some time and come up with a beginner game type or something.

When I've played a bit more for funsies, I may start having games on systems with titles like "Game for beginners - will mentor". Then hopefully newcomers will see it and play, so they can learn a bit more.

Interesting thread. I did want to add in that.. Easy AI is still arguably too hard. We added in sandbox so people could at least figure things out before they got destroyed by the AI, but we'll be adding in a lot more variance on the AI in the future, to better tune the AI experience, especially for brand new players, but also for experienced players who really want to fine tune the AI into a solid practice challenge. Even the hard AI gets pretty easy to beat once you learn how it does things. It's the nature of being a human vs an AI. Until they can learn for real, a good player will always figure out how to beat them.

Thanks, it's not a trivial task to come up with an intuitive, unintrusive way of teaching new players the game, bar making them watch a tutorial video or making a full blown tutorial. Have you been thinking at all about some of the suggestions, like tip of the day or whateveR?

"I don't like how the enemy comes from every direction. " I'm confused, is this poster complaining that the AI is -TOO SMART-? Just set their eco to half if you don't like how ruthless the AI is. The AI isn't supposed to run correct math and figure out your weak spot and exploit it? So you want to go back to Command and Conquer Red Alert AI? Yeah that was super intelligent.

"I also don't like how you cannot save your game yet, which I assume is coming in the future."
I pray Uber implements a pause button, but does NOT placate the click save fest. Lose like a MAN or ragequit like a GIRL and start over.

I also think there is no documentation for beginners, and this game is super unfriendly to anyone who doesn't troll the forums for a few hours first. "Check the Build Notes!". ******* seriously, I have to figure out where the build notes are (there is no sticky post titled 'Build Notes'), then I have to read them and try to digest all this text with no pictures, then go to PA Matches to try to get a picture to see what we're talking about, and click tab back and forth to see what has been changed and why. How does ZaphodX order his commander to build a few mex's at once in the very beginning of all his videos? How do you build a straight line of one type of structure all q'd up like in ZaphodX's videos? How the **** should I know, -there's no instructions-. Hint: make the sticky note titled 'instructions for all the new newbs that aren't really gamers, that we don't really enjoy tolerating, but we need your money so just play your AI blindly till your dumbass figures it out and STFU.'

Some form of local mini-map and/or alert system (base under attack, radar contacts, etc.) would be nice.

The traditional way people are eased into RTS is through the games single player campaign. Limited and progressive exposure to the games core concepts units and tech. Why can this not be the way PA does it? Just because Galactic War is supposed to be a dynamic game mode and isn't in the game yet, doesn't mean it still cannot be approached in exactly the same way. Or am I wrong?

The only way to really ease someone in is through a scripted scenario, be that the opening of a campaign or a dedicated tutorial. It needs to be interactive because videos have been shown not to work primarily because you're trying to teach an interactive medium through a passive video.

If Uber could fashion some sort of "beginner campaign" in Galactic war that would be great. Say, a very short set of matches, each trying to teach you onespecific aspect of the game.