DISCUSS: How to ease beginners into PA

People keep talking about tutorials, which is great, but I just feel like a large proportion of the more casual players, or people who have a low threshold for "amount of new stuff to learn in one go, on your own", won't seek these out, no matter how obvious they are.

This sort of game is never going to be easy to just pick up and play, but I worry that a lot of new players will get scared off by the complexity and lack of guidance, and never try it again, instead of playing it to its fullest, enjoying it, telling their friends etc.
The better this is done, the more likely Uber are to keep getting revenue and the better the game can get for everyone

I'm wondering how we can incorporate tips and guides into the game experience, without being too intrusive.
I guess having mini pop ups and a sandbox mode is about all that could be done...

P.S. I suspect I'm just thinking too much into it

Some people will just jump into a game with no idea how to play and ask about how to mine for fish no matter how many easy starting missions, tutorials, guides, manuals, pop ups and tips you throw at them.

It can't be helped.

True that

As anecdotal evidence, I had to painfully explain the minutiae of playing this game to at least 3 friends already, and really wish there was something in game to do most of this donkey work for me. Then I don't feel like I'm spending all my time explaining things, and they get to enjoy the experience for what it is.

Something I'd much like was an indication on game-lobbies of the skill level of players. This way, a more experienced player could select 'intermediate' skill, so a beginner knows to steer clear. This prevents better players from becoming bored by stomping over new players repeatedly, and saves the first-timers a rather demoralizing first impression.

Being able to name your game's lobby could also help in this.

I'm torn with this. In a way, getting stomped by someone in this game is a learning experience in itself, especially with the option to review a game in great detail. Indeed, the game should encourage you to review a game if you lose, and try to diminish the sting felt from getting owned at the game on your first real try

Perhaps you are able to take a crushing defeat in such a way, but for every gamer-friend I have that play PvP RTS's, I know at least 4 that would like to but are afraid to get crushed. The whole Klingon 'improvement through adversity' attitude is sensible, but not available to all players. Besides, it's a hobby, it should be fun. Not everyone needs to play in the champion's league, some are content to kick a ball on a deserted grass field on the saturdays.

Agreed, and that is a handy metaphor for my suggestion that there is a sandbox mode which also has tooltips/hints that help you learn the game as you play a non-existent/incredibly slow and weak AI.

EDIT: Indeed, the sandbox mode is ALREADY there, you would just have to add some way of giving tips in a non intrusive, helpful way. I mean, most people would surely try a dummy game against an "easy" AI on their first play, right?

Yup! I actually used it today, a friend just bought PA and I taught them the basic UI controls and how to get your base started by playing against sandbox-difficulty AI. It's pretty neat for experimenting with build orders too!

I'm sure they'll add things to facilitate beginners eventually, for now I'm happy to help them.

The problem is, they already have limited budget, so I wonder whether Uber would consider a tutorial video enough, whereas I would hope that some of these things also get implemented. Guess we'll see how it turns out.

The problem isn't the game.
We live in the spoon fed add generation of hand holding.

Go on, say it...I know you want to.

"Kids these days..."

I'm trying to think about not only ADHD kids, but more the older players who don't have a lot of time, so don't want to spend several hours totally lost and not having fun, when an interactive tutorial mode could show them most of what they need to know to really start to get into the game.
Personally, I saw it on Kickstarter, remembered the days of TA as a teenager and backed it in an instant. Since then I've watched countless vids and been on this forum, so know a lot about the game, tactics (theoretically ) and so on.
Don't forget, the more people who buy and enjoy the game, the better for the fans because Uber has more money to make additions

(I thought duncane's AI patch was better anyway. Actually, I think the turtle will beat sorian every time in a straight fight.)

Am referring to SUPCOM.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is an extremely user friendly and simple speculation spectator system. It would be great if players could get snapshots from games in progress, and be able to join as a spectator to any permissible match with one click, at any point throughout a game. Some of these features are undoubtedly being worked on.

Watching a game in progress is a great way to see what strategies people are using and why.

There needs to be a comprehensive tutorial explaining all the structures and the unit. No good tutorial killed SMNC, and I don't want to see it happen again.

From an in universe perspective, the tutorial can be a new commander being ordered to test their structures and buildings, with enemies being spawned in eventually to show off how units fire/how artillery works, etc.

I like a game that throws you into the mix with nothing but your wits. You have to learn by trial/error. A tutorial video to show you how the buildings, units, and interface work in this game are important, but aside from that, everything else should be left to the players to decide how they will implement what they've learned. Games that do that are challenging and fun. I wouldn't want this game to try to hold me by the hand at every step.

I didn't know how to play?

The tutorial overwhelmed me with information as a new player. There wasn't step by step logical progression. The first mission of the campaign gave me a series of goals, a bit of a template to get started (build economy, followed by a factory, followed by engineers and then units, make sure you defend your base against attacks, the backbone of your army should be "tanks") and once stuff was achieved it opened up the possibilities.

The tutorial didn't give me any motivation to play it and discover all the information hidden in it. If it had been tutorial skirmish, like RON with pop-up hints, or how the entirety of Civ V is set up, it would have been much more beneficial.

Essentially, if you're "just starting off", and I'm playing an RTS game, I want to play an RTS game, not a city-builder. If I want to play a city builder, I'll play a city builder. I learned more playing the first mission of the campaign then I would have if I had played the sandbox tutorial.


The experiment with no time pressure is important. But I don't think it helps new players learn the game. We get a common complaint that the AI is too aggressive. Learning to deal with pressure is an important part of the learning process.'

I.e Sandbox has its place, but to help new players learn the game you have to put them under pressure that they are capable of withstanding.

We seem to be talking mostly about in game tutorials here. As a starting point there should at least be stickies on every forum (this, reddit, steam etc) with a collection of basic tutorials "economy - from basic to advanced", "this is the unit rooster", "what can i do with a moon?" and so on and so forth.

Then people who played the game but got curious would have some resources to dig from when trying to get better. They'd have to be maintained and kept up to date with current builds.

As i've stated a couple of times since beta i'd be happy to help write and contribute, but maintaining all of it would be too much for me.
I know there are tutorials on several other places, like a bunch of the casters and players have some stuff on their channels, this could of course be linked to as well.

No, he is right. Remember Super Mario World? Those ghost house that weren't obvious how to beat? No internet back then either. Did people demoralize that game, or was it the best game of its time?

Super Mario 3, you had to navigate a map, and then in world you didn't even have the lined pathway. These games didn't intimidate.

new gamers just insist on being spoonfed or moving onto another game that will cater to them. And EA is willing to cater half heartedly for a nominal fee...