Metal Planets - Should Metal Extractors Be Buildable Anywhere?

so basiclicy battle of middleearthstyle? .... meeeehhhhh .... people should expand to other planets for mexxes ...
also this messes too much with basebuilding imo

metalmakers and goldplanets discourage expanding ... the former is also hard to balance ... goldplanets are only good for fun gameplay as they invalidate the other planets in eco ... in that case better have only one of them ... if there shall be a reason to rush and fight over metal planets then because of its reactivateble planetsbust weapons ... in this case you could have more then one to balance things a bit out ... i think it may still become a race of who can bust the other first ...

Let's just wait untill the metal planet actually has a weapon and then see if it needs more buffing?

But when you consider building Extractors at the best efficiency......how is that really any different from just having a set number of Metal Spots that balanced for the planet?

It's just too complex in teh end for little to no gain, in fact one could argue its actually harmful because it acts like a "noob trap" because they might not know or fully understand the implications of building Extractors on Metal Planets and wind up confused or frustrated that the game isn't working like they expect it too.

Mike

If metal planets are dormant space stations/weapons that you can activate, then why would you be harvesting them? I prefer the idea of changing the appearance of metal spots to look like pre-made deposits and leaving it at that.

The idea of large deposits of metal that you can build lots of extractors on is interesting, but I think it would be better suited to have that as a feature on certain planets with rich resources, where there might be a metal biome or something to that effect. Though I still think that sort of thing should be optional.

How exactly are metal planets not a "metal biome"?

Which was my whole point to begin with, it's a metal biome, if it doesn't act like one it needs to go.

because it may not have a specific function? .... dont be rediciolous

change its name to a Tech planet? technological artificial construction.

Would be interesting to build a giant orbital reclaimer satellite the size of a moon which reclaims entire metal planets and goes mwahahahahahhaa.

Because you're getting caught up on the word "Metal". Just because it shares a common word with something from TA doesn't mean it needs to act in exactly the same way.

Mike

Metal is the resource, if there is metal and you cannot extract it then that doesn't make sense. It's not semantics, it's the actual mechanics of the game. You cannot implicitly distinguish between "cosmetic" metal that arbitrarily cannot be reclaimed or extracted and resource metal.¨

Which is absolutely nothing other than you don't like having a lot of resources in one place. It's not invalid gameplay, it's not "broken", you just don't like it. Please admit this.

it will ultimatly mess with gameplay.. it is not about personal preference as much as you think otherwise
goldplanets (i call them delibaratly that) are as worse if not even worse as metalmakers as they are hard to belance it would just be a matter of who gets to it first and spam mexxes like crazy this is not strategic or positional play and it invalidates other planets except for may be asteroids ... but even then ....
as i said before i consider this purely funstuff ... but it has no place in ladder as long as it isnt propperly edited systemwise ....

Err, yes you can, as the metal that can be reclaimed is located in deposits on the ground.

And besides, why should metal biomes be so special in comparison to ice, lava, mountain, desert, forest, grass land, jungle, ocean floor and moon biomes?

For the 500th time: yes, if there is a concentration of resources on the map you will generally want to capture them. This is no different from any other kind of map with a resource concentration.

No, you will not automatically win because you got to it first, there's a number of factors contributing to that. For example metal planet + other planet > metal planet alone. KEW's, nukes etc. also are able to invalidate economic leads. Metal planets are not free infinite metal, there is a build up time just as with any resource patch, during which you are vulnerable. The same principles of harassment and denial apply to this kind of expansion just as well as it applies to regular planets.

Currently you can get virtually unlimited resources from a regular planet if you own it completely, this is not much different from what would happen if you were left un-opposed on a metal planet as well. This has not "broken" the game or "messed with" it in its current state either.

All players who land on a metal planet will enjoy its benefits in equal measure, and therefore the fight will be balanced.

You can't just ignore the fact that "infinite" resources is vastly different from a simple "concentration". You can't ignore that just because the resources are a certain way NOW doesn't mean they will remain so. You can't ignore that building extractors anywhere is far easier to snowball than on a regular planet. You can't ignore that players will not always arrive on Metal planets at the same time resulting in one player having an advantage.

If you want to have any ground to stand on, you need to back up your points and actually deal with the issues everyone keeps pointing out in your reasoning.

Mike

I already dealt with them many times but you are unwilling to accept that.

It is not "infinite" anymore than regular metal points are infinite, they will give you an unlimited amount over time, but you will always get a finite amount per second. You are simply able to ramp it up more rapidly than regularly, putting a greater strain on your ability to expand your economy. Nothing is different from regular resources except the distribution is more dense.

I've already explained, in the very post you quoted, how harassment, offworld backup and game ending weapons are able to offset the advantage of resources. And it is simply illogical to state that whoever gets there "first" will automatically win. Even if one party arrives late by some significant degree they will still be able to put up a fight where the outcome is not known. Hence, metal planets are not instant win just because you touch down first, you will still need to fight for your advantage.

If you are able to win that fight though, then you will generally be in a position where you can win the game more easily. Again, no different from any other concentration of resources that you are able to take and hold.

whoever controls that goldplanet would have a massiv realy REALY MASSIV economical advantage ... the only limit would be buildspace but he would be able to spam more and faster than any other player and worst he would be spamming nukes like crazy he would be able spam austreus and fabbers like crazy ..... he would spam so much that losing a couple mexxes means nothing and the only answer would be kew's against it but even that might be nigh on impossible as he may have spammed units to any asteroid there is .... that is horrible for a laddergame ... you are underestimitaing to what stale gameplay this leads

I don't think you understand, being able to place extractors anywhere is not the same as building a paragon in supcomfa or using the 'nothing but time' mod. You will still need to build a lot of them which is expensive, and you will need to build even more power generators and fabbers to keep up, which will slow down your expansion by a lot.

To put it in perspective, even using the 'nothing but time' mod, building up to the point where you can rapidly spam experimentals still takes at least 10-15 minutes or something like that. Even with no other limits, time is a significant limit. But a metal planet still has many other limits, it just relaxes the restraint on the metal limit a bit.

I'm not sure why the ladder games matter, it isn't a game only for competition. If it is found to be too imbalanced for some people then they can avoid including them in ladder systems. But as I have also explained many times, these planets are more balanced and more skill dependant than other types of environments in the game.

Money maps are fun for mods, but in the actual game, hell no.
Give somenone 5 minutes undisturbed on a planet like this and there is no catching up. Especially since metal planets apparently are confimed to become death stars at some point in the future this is absolutely ridiculus.
This is fine for single planet matches or maybe multiplanet matches that start on the metal planet, but other scenarios simply wouldnt work well and certainly not well enough to put this into the actuall game.

no one is speaking about a paragon at all
it doesnt matter how long it takes the moment one gets a foothold on that goldplanet it is almost impossible to counter it ... as the productionrate just can go up from then on
having a limited number of mexxes early on allows for more positional play and battle over every mex there is
the less metalspots there are the more important they get as they are what dictates productionrate primarily

I've already given another example of how it could be used; a one vs many setup with one person on a metal planet and everyone else teaming up against him. This sort of play can also be very fun. The possibilities are many, and probably only limited by the imaginations of the system makers.

Which I just proved to be wrong for a number of reasons.

a handicap game has no place in ladder
it would be just another for fun game ...
again i didnt say that it shouldnt be implented at all
but i dont see it having a place in competitive or laddergameplay as it would lead to rather unintresting rush to games