Anyone tried mixing spinners in with a t2 tank army to kill t2 bombers?

I'm just wondering if someone has previously tried this and can, because I'm lazy, give me any information they have on their own trials. I plan to try this out myself in a few games to see if switching my t1 factories to producing spinners, the anti air vehicles makes any difference to t2 bomber spam.

I have my doubts considering the carpet bomber effect and t1 units having low health, but since this is the build we have I thought I would give it a chance before I complained.

I feel a rts game should allow u to have more than one winning strategy, I really hope this works or at least shows some potential.

I tried when I invaded the enemy moon. It's ok if the enemy has their bombers area patrolling the planets since they won't come in with large groups but large groups still blow up T1 anti air very easily, which is how it should be. For large groups you still need fighter, preferable T2.

It's good to see that T1 ground anti air finally has it's place. I think that other than some rough edges (vanguard, transports, t2 orbital radar and some other) Scathis got the balance mostly right now.

Being useless against an air attack and "having its place" are not compatible statements regarding anti air.

Idk, spinners and stingers both wittle air. I send 40-50 first through the teleporter, they kill air over time. I can usually in this update build a teleporter before bombers blow it up and link it instantly upon build and send 100 units through before it gets destroyed.
if those 100 are 40 AA 30 Fabbers 30 Gil-e, then I usually have something to work with. Then I can either quickly build another teleporter and dump more fabbers through to build halleys and scuttle the whole damned rock, or I can spread across the planet with gil-es and AA to kill everything in every direction.

T2 bombers have too much health unfortunately. They tank too much damage.

A bomber is technically the soft counter to AA, which is a hard counter to fighters, and is the soft counter to bombers.

So one on one, it should result in a draw.

Because of splash damage, AA does not benefit from packing up tightly. They need to be spread out a reasonable bit so that they minimise losses to the bomber that slips through the net. Which is what happens when the bomber slips through the net, it destroys the whole group at once.

What? AA is the hard counter for air. A bomber is the hard counter for all things ground that isn't covered by AA.

You don't fly a bomber over airspace covered by AA, you just don't.

Anything that shoots is a soft counter to what it can shoot at.

Anything that can't is hard countered by anything that can.

Bombers are the hard counter for ground. An AA unit is the hard counter for all things air that aren't covered by bombers.

Code:

Soft counter = Damage exchange both ways.

Hard counter = Damage exchange ONE way.

Soft counters can be better or worse. Unfortunately there is no sliding scale of terminology, unless you want to include firm counters as being pretty one sided.


AA is a soft counter to bombers. Standard AA is also the WORST solution to bombers possible, because reactive damage is weak against heavy front loaded damage. In other words:

Bug pokemon just aren't good against flying pokemon. Deal with it. Stop buffing the stinger AA to fight an enemy it'll never excel against. All you'll get as a mediocre weapon against bombers and an overpowered weapon against everything else.

I disagree with soft counter terminology.


Take a rock paper scissors based game. Archers hard counter to infantry, cavalry hard counter to archers, infantry hard counter to cavalry.

Archers damage cavalry. Cavalry damage infantry. Infantry damage archers. But the relationships are one sided. there is damage going both ways - it's just more in favor of one or the other. You need to spam archers to deal with cavalry.

A stinger which kills a bomber with one shot would excel. If it takes more than one shot then you're right.

as it stands, i see this:

T1 AA, and mobile AA, is the soft counter to air. it keeps rouge aircraft away, and easily swats T1 hordes, unless they are ungodly large. in sufficient numbers, they can buy time for your hard counters to come in, while they engage in damage control.

T2 AA, for all intents and purpouses, is our Middle counter. it can outright kill aircraft if they're dumb enough to try to circle back around within its range, and, given the right circumstances, stop an air attack dead. however, a cleverly planned attack will see them dead before they can do their duty.

Aircraft are ideally the Hard counter to bombers and gunships. however, they also have the caveat of being their own worst enemy, being effectively suited for Fratricide - the killing of their own kind. what that means is that if the bombers want to be protected against fighters, the only real solution is to counter it with their own fighters, and pray they have more/better. so no matter how many fighters you send at a bomber swarm, if enemy fighters get to them first, your own fighter swarm is likely to be negated.

so we arrive at a situation where the only hard counter to air in general, is air itself. you are forced to fight fire WITH fire, and hope they burn out first.

meh, nobody mentions using your fighters over your ground aa. It holds ground, a few aircraft can counter twice the enemy aircraft. Invest the rest of the cost in tanks and try to slide them past bombers while enemy has just loss a lot.

In a way, air is sort of cancelling itself out at the moment. I build Peregrines, you build Peregrines and our two groups wipe each other out over and over again. So long as no one slips up the land war continues, but if someone scores a victory in the air then **** the land war, here come the Kestrel fleet.

i do find that mixing in guards/vanguards ties up kestrels long enough for the spinners to take a few of them out. granted im still going to scramble my fighters, but more tanks are saved than with spinners alone.