OMG Uber Cannon is so OP. Fix now!

It's a nifty option. But shouldn't be a gameplay requirement.

"Build this factory first or quite possibly lose" is a bad game mechanic.

If we get an egg or some starting units, everything will change again. In general I'm thinking this new starting build is still a step in the right direction.

Garat said on his stream that transports are now in the advanced factory in the new build.

Dumb... rushing has been made not viable again....what about multiple unit transports? Where do they go?

Sounds like they still want transports at t1, but they moved them to shut us up for now. The irony is we were just starting to relearn how to play in a way that mostly negated the possibility of comm drops.

Silly Uber telling us one thing and then ignoring their own advice.

Well we are jumping the gun a little.

But yeah....could early flame tanks be used to defend against a rush? Or am I silly?

What sort of rush? Against a com they'd get uber'd.

Not as easily as a bot would.

I figure they might survive a bast or two, giving the defender the advantage.

If you have 4, spread them. Move-chain them to go in from 3 sides spaced out.

I remember they specifically said: anything might change at any time, the commander not be carry-able will be last-option design...

I never remembered them telling us "the pelican will always be buildable from start" and then implementing "the pelican will now be t2". Please link?

However, I do agree with this. I think numbers could have balanced it better than placement. Speed numbers. Even limiting the commander carrying thing sounds fine with me.

Know my favorite solution? Make it able to carry the commander, but only same speed or barely faster than he is by default. Because he is already multiterrain. The only reason he needs transport is if stuck or on lava planets. It is fine if he keeps it too. Might just be smart to make it require the time it takes to walk his chunky slow arse over to them to limit the "commander speed", because comrushing isn't the scary thing, it's playing keepaway with the com using it.

What kiwi was referring to was uber telling us to play around with it and find counters to it before coming to rash conclusions.

Why are you assuming it's a rash decision? Believe it or not we've been playing with this stuff far longer than you guys have. And quite frankly, we already knew it was breaking the early game a little. Even more than commander rushes. Inferno rushes and general fast expansion was also an issue,

After much consideration, we're moving it to the advanced air factory because we want to slow down expansion early game. It's too easy to cart your commander around negating his slow speed. Yes, air fabbers are still viable for fast expansion but they are fragile. The transport is still cheap and will be built very fast, making them useful right at the beginning of T2.

I wasn't saying that I was, I was saying that kiwi was. It was clearly broken and needed a change to when you could get them out to make them viable. I would have preferred a change akin to the one that I posted in balance discussion, but this was by no means a rash decision. Something along the lines of this needed to be done.

It was a plural "you".

All the fun units are at T2... none of them are T1. Lamezor. Except the firefly. Drown my sorrows in a sea of fireflies. Eggscellent.

I don't get the transport. It's the one unit that should be interceptable, and it's as fast as the interceptors.

I also don't get the Pelican and fabber combination. That could have been a dox and an air fabber.


Seems like the issue is the transport moves too fast compared to the fabber.


And again, I ask where are multiple unit transports going to go? There's no room in the factory.






Also, a two minute unit rush doesn't break the game. It's valid. It only breaks the game if there is absolutely nothing you can do against it.

Change the starting equipment to start with radar, the defender can see which direction the rush is coming from and do something about it (earlier interception, build units)

You may need to reread the original post. Pay particular attention to the parts that say "It's not final".

I know it's not final. There's a suggested trend that while currently there are valid ways to win before t2, that is in and of itself 'not final'.



Unless you are saying that the shift of the Pelican to T2 is not final. In which case, HOORAY!

Well I can imagine that balance can change a lot to bring transports back to t1.
Slower speed, slower acceleration and slower drop-off greatly affects the balance of transports.
I don't think early commander transportation would work that well with the current iteration of the commander. I think he is basically untouchable at t1 and being able to drop him off anywhere you want might be a too powerful ability and it might force an air first meta.
Although once people consolidate with the fact that airsuperiority gives you the ability to transport the commander anywhere you want to use his power offensively, a lot of the meta might be about denying your opponent from that opportunity.
Personally I think that commanders shouldn't die when their transports gets' destroyed. It is much cooler if you let physics handle the rest and send the commander tumbling towards the ground, damaging the commander but not destroying him unless he is already damaged.

Nothing is final. The game is in beta. However, we still treat balancing like it's final. Treat it too much like that to the point where we don't experiment with big changes to see how they feel. That is something I'd like to persuade uber to change.

When I say we I refer both to the uber devs making the changes and us as a community reacting to proposed changes. Take all of the nuke controversy for example, how many people are unwilling to try alternate AntiNuke types, even if it's just for a single build.

Sorry for me derpy typos. Autocorrect op.

Well, the new build is out. So, instead of pontificating, GO PLAY.