Console controller design.

Look at your keyboard. I'm going to assume that you're all right-handed, so put your left hand on the keyboard like you're going to play MNC or a shooter like Battlefield or Halo.

What do you notice? All five of your digits are on (or close to) separate keys that can do different things. I'll even hazard a guess that you've just picked WASD, Space, and Shift.


Now, look at your preferred console controller. For those playing from home, here's a picture of the new XBox One controller;



Now, mentally, pick up the controller and count how many fingers are on (or close to) the buttons.

Maybe another picture will help;



That's right. Only your index fingers are being used - maybe your middle fingers too if you're supremely dexterous. I think it's a waste of fingers.

Does anyone sell a controller that has buttons underneath?

Is there any reason why these aren't commonplace? The only downside I can think of is that it's a little more difficult for new players to learn.

Controllers are a fun bit of history, and I could go on for hours on this kind of topic.

So to answer your question the answer is both yes and no. There are controllers out there with buttons on the back, certainly the new Steam Controller from Valve have these, but that's not available to the public yet so that doesn't really count. Other options are a hand full of "full keyboard" type controllers which are other examples of people trying to either create ergonomic keyboards or solve the same issue Valve was trying to solve with getting a keyboard and mouse on to the proverbial couch. One such example takes this quite literal like the Alphagrip controller which is literally almost every button on a keyboard covering a controller and a trackball mouse.

Another example that's a little more traditional in form are the "cheater" controller modifications to the Xbox 360 controller. There are a handful of companies that have modified the controllers to add turbos and macros, as well as often adding additional buttons including ones on the back. These either serve to mirror other existing buttons or to initiate macros.

There's also non-destructive controller mods like the Avenger which had early versions with button manipulation on the reverse side, but in the final shipping version that was removed.

Now why don't these controllers exist more often? Part of it is the simple issue of, like you said, difficulty getting used to them. Gamepad style Controllers are difficult enough for those who aren't accustom to them. For the longest time a joystick or trackball and a single button were it for input. It took Nintendo (and others) experimenting with using your thumbs as primary inputs instead of palms or your index fingers to make the d-pad and face buttons we know today. For the average person the Microsoft and Sony console controllers are nearly at the limit of their dexterity so adding more buttons is just going to complicate the issue. Add to this both of those controllers kind of require use of the pinky and ring finger to help steady the controller while in use that adding buttons to use those fingers would just mean you would fling the controller out of your hand if you tried to use them.

The Steam Controller is actually a fairly significant change in that regard, designed to actually rest in the palms of your hands with out any fingers touching it and still remain stable. Try doing that with any other console controller made in the last decade and you'll find very few (ironically the original Xbox controller, the Duke, was one).


So, to sum up. Yes they exists, but they're uncommon. Also, most kind of suck. They are uncommon because they're difficult to use making their market small, and most controllers designs simply aren't made with the idea of keeping those fingers free to manipulate another button with.

Where could one read about said history in depth? I'd ask you for the history lesson, but you've got a life to live (and a game to make).

If you were referring to the larger XBox controller that was replaced with a slightly smaller design, I remember that one well.

There are a few shows on controllers on youtube, as well as some infographics showing the evolution of controllers, but they generally talk about the history of controllers going back to the Pong and stop two or three generations of consoles back with a "and now look how crazy they are!" or just focus on Nintendo. I'm not sure there's a one-stop place to go to get the history of controllers. There's a ton of kind of forgotten history especially in the PC world where there's been tons of experimentation that simply never gained widespread popularity like the SpaceTek SpaceOrb 360 which live on as 3d mice for CAD or the Novint Falcon 3D which is a force feedback 3 axis mouse, and those are just two of the more popular ones.

More recently the VentureBeat write up on the Xbox One controller is great as it discusses some of the ideas they tried out and some reasoning behind the minor changes that did make it. http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/18/t...stuff-that-didnt-make-it-in-part-1-exclusive/

Didn't the Gamecube controller have a Z button on the bottom?

I think you might have to do a Pod Cast with Brad Nicholson to give us a history lesson

Well the final Gamecube controller had the Z button as a second shoulder button, which has a great story behind it. The original Gamecube controller prototypes did not have this button, the proof of which can be seen between these two with a retail controller on the left and an early dev kit controller on the right.

(source: http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=35&threadid=111434)

The story that I remember is that the extra button was added while they were working on Zelda: Wind Waker. If you played Zelda: Ocarina of Time you'll remember the Z trigger was used as the lock on button. They had apparently originally had an auto lock on system, so they had already used all of the existing buttons on the controller, and realized the auto lock system wasn't going to work. Instead of changing the control scheme entirely, they added another button! As you can see it was a bit of a last minute thing.


However I don't think you're totally wrong about it being on the back as I have a vague memory of a series of kludged together versions with the extra button kind of glued on to random spots, including on the back, though I can't find any examples now.

I'm not sure a podcast about controllers would be the best venue as it tends to be a rather visual topic. "It had a couple of buttons and a circular directional pad on the face and kind of shaped like a boomerang" doesn't do a particularly good job of helping one visualize what a controller looks like. Many fans of modern consoles may remember the original PS3 controller as shown at the 2005 E3.


But what I was actually thinking of was the Apple Bandai Pippin controller.

Which ironically does have some buttons that could conceivably be hit with your pinky fingers if you really stretched.

It could also kind of describe the SNES CD controller.

Which eventually evolved into the Playstation controller... no, really.


The SNES CD to Sony Playstation story is another wonderful one. Basically the Playstation exists because Nintendo pulled out of a contract with Sony to make a Sega CD like addon to the SNES, and Sony were so pissed off they decided to bring it to market anyway.

As I may have mentioned, I can go on and on on this topic...

Best controller.

Boy, you really do love your controllers don't you? As it turns out, it wasn't the Gamecube controller, it was the N64 one:


I knew it was something Nintendo... I have a very distinct memory of staring at the controller for ages trying to figure out where the dang Z button was, then I finally found it and was utterly confused by it's placement.
Dualshock 3 for life <3

Why are the symbols on the front of the keys?

Means the letters won't rub off with a lot of use & also looks pretty cool.

My letters never rub off any of my keyboards and I assure you I'm a heavy keyboard user. Yours probably don't have some sort of supermagical coating.

Yes, they DO sell (aftermarket) controllers wth buttons behind them, specifically Xbox One, 360 and PS3 controllers!

http://eu.scufgaming.com/scufone/shop/

The N64 controller's Z button, while on the back, is still normally manipulated with the index finger like any other shoulder button. They did the strange 3 prong design because they weren't sure if people would actually like or use the thumbstick. In case no one liked it the thumbstick and extra button could safely be ignored and the controller would function like a "normal" controller with some extra face buttons. They also figured they could use the center prong as a pistol grip and at one point planned on making a light gun attachment, but that never happened.

I don't think people that grew up with the Dual Shock and Xbox controllers understand how weird the idea of a thumbstick was back then. There had been a few attempts prior that just attached on to the d-pad, but people still used them by holding on to them like a normal joystick rather than manipulating it with your thumb. When the Ultra 64 (as it was known back then) controller was first shown off I remember everyone saying "bah, that'll never work!" Then the first time I picked it up it just clicked instantly. If you look at the few early versions of the controller that have come out you can see early on that the top 4 buttons on the face had already been repurposed to be directional buttons but were laid out more like the Sega Genesis as normal buttons.

They quickly realized the value of it being a second directional input was more valuable than as extra normal buttons and squashed them together to mimic a d-pad more closely.

So, while Nintendo had feared the thumbstick and the Z trigger would go unused, the opposite occurred and the d-pad and left shoulder button were essentially abandoned. Late third party controllers actually went this direction and completely removed the left grip.


emo! I was trying to remember those controllers when I was writing my original post, but just couldn't find them.

Depends on the keycaps. For mechanical keyboards, like the Filco shown in the original post, the lifespan of the keyboard is long enough that certain keycaps would wear out. (Ordinary ink-printed keycaps would, while mold-injected, etc would not.)
Since Filco makes their keycaps to be inexpensive and easily replaceable, they reduce the price by using a less expensive printing process, in which the keycaps may wear out after long term use. As such, their Ninja line prints on the front instead of the top of the keycaps, in order to mitigate the problem. (But don't mistake that for meaning that Filco keyboards are low quality. I personally think that they are among the greatest keyboards I've ever used.)

And now, back on the topic of gamepads.

So being a certified controller expert, what are your thoughts on the steam controller?

I haven't actually used one yet (even though we have a few in the office now). My initial impressions from seeing one and holding it is the lack of tactile feedback when not in motion is going to make it much more difficult to get used to than other forms of input we're used to, but it's not an insurmountable problem. We type on touch displays now with surprising accuracy and speed with even less feedback than what Valve's controller gives so never underestimate a human's ability to adapt when forced to.

And before someone tries to correct me, yes I know the controller has a few levels of tactile feedback in the form of physical lines on the touch surface and linear resonant actuators to mimic clicks and a mouse ball. However these only help when you're already physically touching the surface and in motion. Thumbsticks have a natural tactile feedback of the self righting spring letting you know how far off of center you are and older d-pad and physical buttons you can feel their location prior to pressing them.

I used to use a joystick for flight sims that let you unlock each axis so that it wouldn't spring back to center, useful for setting throttle with one unlocked axis and rudder with the other which some might know is useful to have both snap back to center and "lock" to position depending on the situation. Using this joystick for anything other than flight sims with the axis unlocked was nearly impossible.

That's what I hate about touch screens.

The n64 is the best because it's the only one that caters to people with three hands.