OMG Uber Cannon is so OP. Fix now!

Not viable at 2 minutes in. It would also cripple you for mid game as you wouldn't be able to expand as quickly and as cola_colin said, it's easy to avoid with a scout.

@brianpurkiss ufff.... well the only other option i could think of would be mines from combatfabbers or bombbots ... those are not working well yet either ...
an earlier one was a aa vanguard comb but guess this is out of question as well ...

Have people had any succes with hotbuild2 imbawalled turrets being spammed around the base for two minutes? How many does it take to kill a commander?

I think the issue is that it invalidates any other factory first.

You have to build air first because you have to scout early to see if the rush is coming, and fighters give you the best chance of countering the rush.

If no rush is coming, then you are rushing them so you don't get behind in the midgame.

Why?

why it isnt valid? because we have a >t1< orbital launcher? ... and transporting stuff is rather a basic thing to do? i see no reason other then gameplaybalance to deny transportoptions on t1 ... but be able to expand with t1 orbital ... it is just absurd ...

Looking at the prices, orbital is almost as expensive as t2 now. Not worth it in my book. I could be nuking people by the time someone is established on a moon.

How about if the commander can only be moved by orbital transporter?

@mered4 even more of a reason to not exclute t1 transports .....

I think making Commanders not moveable by transports is a pretty easy fix.

@brianpurkiss easy yes but good? how do you want to escape with your comm when attacked to another base on the same planet? realy orbital only?

That is absolutely false. You have to take into account everything or else you end up making 'fixes' that introduce more problems.

For example, the new desert planet makes it so there's a lot more vertical terrain, making choke points much more viable to hold and force people into. It negates the ability to transport and attack from any angle.

I wish I saw videos of you guys playing more on desert, ice, or lava planets because they have much more interesting terrain and more options for defending choke points.

In-general, in any RTS, maps that are more flat tend to cater to rush strategies. Maps that have a lot more vertical terrain help negate early game rushes.

That's a fairly inelegant solution to a problem I'm not even sure is a problem yet. I would only consider this as a last resort.

If missile towers would prevent it, then how are they a mistake?

I lost an ally commander to this, and still won the game mind you, but I think they chose him instead of me in light of the fact they scouted me and were immediately shot down (the scouts were), so they measured odds and probabilities.

Generally, just like air was OP last build, this will be OP this build, it will become overused, and countering it from getgo will be all anyone ever does right from start... Then, just like air last build, it will start to fail to win games because everyone sees it coming.

Generally, the strategy is fairly new, I played a 3v3v3 with randoms where nobody used it, I opted not to use it, I told the players about it mid-game after it's window of opportunity passed, and generally it will only get more common, but I wouldn't exxagerate it like Halo Wars. Halo wars was where there was absolutely no options, any reaction got you stuff'd. Here, you have options. Air first factory then fighters. Missile turrets. Stingers/spinners. Any combo of those...

As a general rule for ground based combat, terrain is a factor.

But when the issue we're having is with air transports dropping a commander, terrain has no bearing since the transports fly over the terrain or around it in seconds. The terrain does not alter this binary game breaking strategy at all.

At two minutes in, there's no units or buildings to take advantage of the transports.

Furthermore. As I mentioned. If this strategy isn't viable on one planet type (which it's valid on all planet types), but is viable on some planet types, then that means that we can't ever play on, say, a moon. That is bad.

Personally, I don't like playing on moons and like to play on the other biome types. Lava being my favorite. I just haven't been able to play hardly at all for the past few weeks.

Except the vertical terrain doesn't mess with the transported commander at all.

Because missile towers don't prevent it because any semi-competent rusher would scout and see the missile tower and avoid it. It would be a mistake because it would be a waste of metal that early into the game. It's a mistake because I could build two metal extractors instead of that missile defense tower and metal extractors are extremely important for the early game exponential growth.

Air factory first means this game is binary and there is no strategic options. Go air factory first or you'll lose. That is bad. It's also mostly luck based that your fighter will intercept the incoming commander. That is also bad.

Missile turrets, stingers, and spinners also are worthless because any semi-competent rusher will scout them out and then they'll be a complete waste of metal when the commander is on the ground. Or if the opponent doesn't rush, then that's wasted metal since it should have been invested in economy. You're now behind in the exponential growth.

Rock, Paper, Scissors has been mentioned here. Rock Paper Scissors is a 100% luck based game and that's what this strategy and change is promoting. We need to have options and counters that are strategy based, not luck based.

The only options we have here are luck based, or will cause you to lose because you've invested into defensive units that you don't need while your opponent's economy is now three times larger than yours.

How do you escape? By using proper strategy, scouting, and planning ahead.

I think it makes a lot of sense that the commander can't be picked up by transports and adds strategy to the game.

The whole get AA argument is pointless. You have already scouted them and you're dropping your commander outside there base, avoiding there AA.

For me the issue is that in a Commander vs. Commander face off, the invading Commander with no support wins, while the commander inside its base with back up loses.

Firstly, one could scout an incoming commander. Secondly, one can spread aronund anti-air. If the commander is dropped out of base, they aren't going to snipe your power. If they are dropped with reinforcements, then you probably could have had reinforcements, more anti-air units, more scouting done, and able to keep them farther away.

It definitely buffed rushing and encouraged it earlier than ever, but it is definitely not that OP. Nothing a slight change of numbers doesn't fix. Honestly, a t1 transport carrying a commander is a good utility in case of an oh-**** move in team games (because you can EVAC your commander to a friendly base or the left-vacant enemy base), but I also think that a t1 transport carrying a commander is a pretty hefty feat for a t1 unit so perhaps that shouldn't be allowed. Generally, I dislike the astraeus altogether as well.

Also, I must not have seen what you've seen. How does a unsupported commander beat one with a (albeit small) base?

100% luck based. Again, this happens at 2 minutes in.

You can't do that at 2 minutes in. If you somehow manage to do that, the enemy commander will land outside of the anti-air, negating it. If you do invest in so much anti-air and they don't commander rush, then you're screwed because you've invested in anti-air not economy and your opponent's economy is much larger than yours.

Why aren't they going to snipe your power?

The main issue with this is at 2 minutes in. There is no reinforcements. No defense. No nothing. Just commander vs commander and the defending commander has no power.

You should read this thread. There's videos and in depth descriptions on how this is done. You should go back and read the thread before you debate on the topic.

In short. Build a few metal, an air factory, and power. Drop a commander right outside the enemy base and walk in your commander. First thing you do with your commander is take out your opponent's power and then uber cannon the defending commander to death. The defending commander has no power and has no way of killing the attacking commander.

I'll try to be brief, but if its too brief feel free to quote again.

Moving a Transport unit that benefits every land unit, to another tier sounds like to strong of a move in order to balance the... exploit?

The problem I see here in reality is

• Uber cannon is very strong and destroys structures handidly and has a very low energy cost requirement for its usage.
• The transport moves incredibly quick and effectively that it renders intercepting it near impossible.
• No matter what unit that a transport picks up, it doesn't get effected by weight. A commander is considerably more powerful then any land unit in the game and probably weigh's the most.

That last bullet point is not really a reality to it, more of an idea of the crazy advantage that giving a transport does to a commander.

I thus conclude that Maybe toning down the speed of the transporter and increasing the "roll off" "roll on" time of the transport might give it more room to be intercepted. Roll off and roll on is the time the transporter takes in taking in cargo and dropping it off.

I still think however, we are coming up with solutions within 24-hours of the problem. I feel like we just discovered the 6 pool zerg push, but instead of leaving it in and seeing if it really is a problem, we want to move a key unit to a higher tier due to one problem.

I'm digging that idea.

Make the transport's speed altered by the unit it picks up.

Commanders move really slowly. Advanced vehicles a little faster. Advanced bots a little faster than that. Basic vehicles a little faster than that. And basic bots at full speed.

This definitely should be increased with or without the commander rush issue.

I mean how. Like, am I the only one that spreads out both power and base format that the power being attacked while my commander is already there isn't a problem?

I thought that is the "understated" use of the pelican. Later in the early game, if one makes outposts, and keeps a pelican on standby near commander, then if a commander or a large force pressures it, you can send commander there to crowd control until it is larger. That was the problem I had pre-pelican. I build a more distant line of skirmish, and before I quite had pelters and really soon after shooing off the enemy fabbers, the commander comes in and stomps the young base to ashes. No t1 units or towers can stand up to a commander just walking in. A commander however, can stand up.

Also, am I missing something, or does the Uber Cannon not one-hit power plants; Are people building them really close together?

If the pelican increases the speed of the commander, but decreases it's speed from what it is now, I could dig that too.