There should be two Unit cannon Tiers

Alright, I looked at the 4 unit cannon topics in the general forum. I have come to a couple conclusions about what people are expecting and what we have.

Plan and simple from Lore(videos/devs): The unit cannon Shoots units from one smaller planetary body to a larger planetary body supporting troop movement from planet to planet.

If this is the agreed upon idea that the devs/community have shared this vision. I don't think this vision is big enough.

What Role does the Unit Cannon Fill.
So when people saw the Kickstarter trailer they were excited to see a proxy factory rain bots onto the field of play on the main planet and and were excited to see that. However, we were limited in our scope. We aren't always going to be playing on 1 main planet and have one moon and one asteroid belt . We are going to have multi planet starts, multiple moons, and potentially more celestial bodies to transport our armies of destruction.

Transportation simplified
Lets look at the planets and moons on a flat map style that we can all kind of relate and understand. Sort of like old RTS, these pictures are purely visual and are meant to convey ideas.

Transportation between different planets is really in essence, transportation on islands, only spaceships are our means of transport this time. The Moon is its own island, the Planet is a big island and so on so forth.

So how do you transport your armies between these islands effectively and present strategic depth to the battle?

The Teleporter: The Teleporter is probably the best addition to the game. They offer point to point travel between your islands, putting you on spots that you build and decide to place yourself. These are great for moving armies from a base to your other base on a different island. Essentially creating a timespace warp bridge.

The SpaceCraft: These are the Pilgrims that will first colonize your islands and make it possible to begin taking over more portions of the map. However, these pilgrims have to be either stealthy or first to planets to secure them and provide the true army transportation that is required to invade the rest of the planet or moon.

The Unit Cannon: This is the true transportation that links transportation and assault in the same sentence. Can be built on a moon and use its faster space travel to assist planetoid attacks with army placement anywhere you want on a planet to help establish a beach head for the teleporter calvalry to come in and provide the brunt of the force

But there is a gap!! You are limited to moons and small planetoids to provide beach head invasions, and they are limited in range. How do you provide land beach heads when you can't put any boots on the ground?

My take on the solution is simple. We kill the batman. No but seriously, An Advanced Unit cannon.

What does it do: The Advanced Unit cannon is an extremely expensive unit cannon that can be built on Planets and launch armies across to moons and other planetoids. Providing the same services as the Basic unit cannon, but significantly more expensive and not as energy efficient as it's moon counterpart.

Why do we need it? Because when systems get to the bare minimum gameplay and you need to establish beachheads, you have to be able to attack with your planet versus theirs. With the inclusion of interplanetary nukes, and planetary bombardment from unit cannons of sorts, softening an opponenets planetary gate will be easier then ever if we are not limited to moons providing are beach head assault weapon.

Why have two unit cannons?

Because a tiered system of power is perfect for its use. The basic unit cannon can provide the simple and nice function of planetary travel without having to plant a teleporter down with moons and asteroids. Its cheaper, effective, and does everything you want a unit cannon to do. It however doesn't have super infinite range and what not.

The Advanced unit cannon is pricier, not as cheap, but provides that extra unit sending power to another planet that will get beach heads established. It's not meant to overtake basic unit cannons since its not cost effective, so the basic building is still valuable for its cheap services.

TL;DR
1.)Add an advanced unit cannon along with unit cannon for planets to use.
2.) use this picture as a guide.

This idea isn't perfect.
I state this as a possible solution to planetary invasions while stretching the idea of unit cannons to make it possible. It is by no means the best solution. If you have a fun idea for invading other planets from your planet, feel free to post.

I think you're right and wrong. You're right in that there needs to be a way to invade without using a moon – which is why I created my Planetary Invasions thread on that very topic.

I also think you're thinking bigger, but not big enough. Mainly, why do we have to use a unit can to invade? Why not other methods of invasion? Why does it have to be a Unit Cannon?

(First off, we should probably play with the unit cannon before we start putting out verdicts.)

However, I like the idea of a limited unit cannon. It gives a valid reason for us to not smash a moon, which is important.

And for invading from large planet to large planet, I recommend a drop shock trooper style capsule. Launch the capsules from one planet to the next, they rain down from above, land, open up, and units pour out.

This second style of invasion will be more costly than the unit cannon, mainly since the unit cannon will be re-useable.

These drop pod style invasions will also be massive, epic, awesome, and kick a**.
(the whole trailer is really good, but skip to 1:10 for the drop pods)



So we will have two methods of invasions – both with positives and negatives to them. This allows for diversity and greater strategy rather than "I'll just build the bigger cannon."

Mainly, this adds more variety, allows invasions when there aren't moons, and gives us a reason to not smash a moon.

This is what I've suggested a lot in my Planetary Invasions thread. And it was discussed a lot over there.

To be honest, I don't like the methodology behind the proposed Unit canons design, especially when considered alongside the proposals seen thus far for how Teleporters work. I worry that such systems basically lead up into situations where in order to achieve Objective A, using thing X, then Y and then Z to accomplish that.

Unfortunately I don't have the time to go more in depth on this right now.

Mike

I hope you find time as I'd love to hear more about your viewpoint on this.

An interesting idea but why not have the adv unit cannon in orbit connected to the ground by an orbital elevator for games with out moons instead.

An orbital elevator would be a fun idea. However... it would be vulnerable to land/sea units, fighters, and orbital fighters.

So... very vulnerable. Maybe too vulnerable to be valid in combat? Or maybe it's vulnerability is very important for balance.

And maybe we could even make it so if fighters blow up the middle part, air fabbers can repair that section without having to re-build the entire thing. Now that'd be interesting...

I was also thinking that having a t1 unit cannon build on a planet instead of a moon could be used as an on planet unit artillery building similar to what we saw on the kick-starter trailer

That's been mentioned a few times before and would be a pretty fun idea.

Who needs a Holkins when I can just throw bots into your base? :-D

I still am on the hope that a one shot transport rocket will replace the orbital transports ability to even enter the orbital layer.

Then we can built them for moving small blobs of units (like 5 T1 or 1 T2), stack up the launchers till you have enough to breach (Like 30) and all move at once to a enemy planet.

I stay with my desire for a tough, big and costly Dropship unit-design, to be build massively, pack with bots and tanks, and send over the enemy planet to invade - in dozens.

Then it can drop units, I'm fine with that. But I do want a Troop transport

I don't see how we can compare the two things. I imagine that an Unit cannon would be more costly than a bunch on Holkins, and it doesn't do splash damage. Beside that, I do not feel there is the need for a smaller version of the Unit cannon. That should be a planet to moon invasion instrument, one can employ in order to soften up the enemy defenses.

That still leaves plenty of room to decide "what to send, how much to send, and where to send it". What matters is making sure that options are available to break every stall condition, even if that option is simply "play better".

And no, using nukes or asteroids to break stall conditions is not good.

Only if they stay as they are now.

I really would prefer better counter-play for both of these.

Honestly, the best design angle is to assume the game has neither option. Work on the axiom that PA has planetary robot battles without using space nukes or space rocks. Keep the focus on robot battles, and keep adding stuff until the game is firm and moist. Bake at 350, then add asteroid frosting and sprinkle nukes on top.

Bam, you have a delicious planetary treat for all to enjoy.

This sort of extreme vulnerability means that you can't reliably build an orbital elevator on a contested world. So when can you build it? Probably after you conquer the planet.

What do you do after you conquer the planet? You want to conquer the next planet.

What do you need to conquer the next planet? An army.

What does that army need? Movement. Easy access to the orbital layer, and definitely a way to crash down on the next world (teles do movement, but they don't crash down).

What sort of facility is really good at moving armies cheaply into the orbital layer? Maybe perhaps... an orbital elevator?

It sounds good on paper. It gives cheap, easy access to the orbital layer exactly when you need it, at a time when it is easy to build, and not a moment before. Braille ants.

I totally agree.

But they what happens to Unit transports? Aside from the fact that a Unit cannon can't bring units back to base(not that you'd ever want to aside from some very specific circumstances) it is by far superior compared to Air Transports.

Mike

Despite having similar end goals, transports and cannons work in different ways.

Transports add a small cost per unit(s). A cannon is fairly expensive but is pretty much a one time payment.

Transports are 2-way. Cannon is 1-way. 1-way favors assault, while 2-way is more for support.

Transports may or may not breach atmo. Cannons definitely breach atmo, if the kickstarter video is to be believed.

Atmospheric transports are vulnerable to anti air. Orbital transports are vulnerable to anti space-air. Cannons are vulnerable to ground attack. If delivered on asteroid they can be remarkably difficult to destroy while other transports are busy getting shot.

It's all about the little things, I guess.

I looked through at the ideas thread and looked at the idea of my thread, yes, we talk about planetary invasions, but I primarily wanted to expound on just the unit cannon and maybe thinking bigger on just this topic. It seems Space elevator to a unit cannon is the idea here. But I have a feeling people are grounded in their view that a unit cannon has to act in a manner that Uber initially setup, which is not true.

why use a Unit cannon to invade? well that question is along the lines of .. Why have bots and tanks? I just think its a cool idea that Uber thought of it for the interplanetary beach head idea. I even think the capsules that the unit cannon shoots are tiny drop pods that you refer to as the invasion mechanism.

Why not other methods of invasion? What other methods of invasion have you discussed in your thread?(I did read your thread, you don't have to list them in this thread, I only saw a megabot drop,drop pods and T3 space carriers). To expound on your droppod idea: How do drop pods get launched an loaded? where do you build drop pods? I only see that you guys Want drop pods but how do you create the supporting structure to make it happen how you want it to happen. I seriously think unit cannons are your supporting structures, but what do you see as support.

Why does it have to be a unit cannon? Well, why not? I feel it goes into the "Why have bots and tanks?" I'm not saying my unit cannon idea is the end all be all for invasions. It's just a "bigger" view point for that initial unit cannon idea. I like your thread on planetary invasions since it is a good area for spitballing the idea. I just wanted to think of more fun ways to utilize the unit cannon asset to help solve the end game invasion.

to end this triad. What do you in vision the unit cannon to perform?

This methodology you speak of.. can you expound on that idea? again, i'm welcome to your interpretation of what a unit cannon should do. My idea isn't the end all be all for the idea.

Isn't the Unit cannon the Dropship unit shooter? The initial kick starter showed drop pods landing on the earth with multiple units dropping out. How do you invision the drop-pod to be launched/executed?

At first I thought your idea sounds like making the unit cannon fragile, but It would awesome to see a huge structure that is launching armies to different planets with an elevator to get lower gravity.

I approve. Do you have any concept pictures of this idea that you are referencing? it doesn't have to be unit cannon+elevator. It can be seperate.

My point is rather simple.

It's a little lame to just "let's make a bigger one."

Let's add diversity.

As for the specifics, there's a lot of different ways of making it happen. Some of which were discussed – most of which should be left up to Uber.

I'd rather have diversity. If there's simply a bigger unit cannon, then the small one will rarely get used and moons will be all smashed.

Adding a large unit cannon is a mistake since it removes the incentive to not smash a moon.

By having drop pods there's increased cost for each invasion. Not just the increased cost of building a bigger cannon since that's a negligible cost.

So there's a benefit of using drop pods – invading from a large planet.
And there's a benefit of using the unit cannon – less cost.