Classic Metal Map VS Metal Planet

In the old classic Total Annihilation the point of the metal map was that you could build metal extractors anywhere like energy extractors. Is that not the intention with Metal planets?

No it is not the intention

It isn't. In PA, metal planet is instead a polite and disney-lawyer-avoiding way of saying 'death star'.

So am I alone in wishing it was that way? I also miss the old energy to metal converters. Oh, and I miss brawlers.

it a nice mod map, but you're suggesting making it ranked at all times.

brawlers were previewed last week. look for them to possibly be in this week's patch! yay! then also look for me to build 'em by the dozen!!! LOVE them. though they'll have a different name, I'll still probably always call 'em brawlers.

What do you mean by ranked? I was just messing around with that planet type last night and was annoyed that on a metal planet I'd still have to search half the map for a metal node. Sure it is a different skin for the planet, but it was just a skin. Having a metal map used to mean something, now it is just decoration.

uhmmm "a skin" is very beliteling. It's a planet type and the reason we only have 9 (counting gaz and water) is that they take long to make.

considering how cool metal plantes look you can estimate you'll always have one in each host.

now look at it from a gameplay perspective : forget all the other planets in the system whoever holds the metal planet wins.

get the idea?

And that doesn't make for a good gameplay mechanic? Have one small metal planet people fight to be the first to arrive. That is a viable gameplay type. Makes for a quicker match if that is true as well.

Have you played classic TA? Go load it on a system and play the classic metal map. It wasn't a gimme. Just because you have metal doesn't mean you can hold a position. Even if it was the starting map you'd be equally matched. There is more to strategy than resource starving your opponent.

uhmm ya i know there was a metal map on FA too.

the difference is that in those games you played on one map at a time

what you are suggesting is in no way balanced unless it is the only planet in the system.

This. I liked the TA metal maps too, but there's no way to balance it, especially with multiple planet starts. Anyone starting on a metal planet would have an insurmountably huge advantage over their opponents.

You and your opponent are playing on the same map and have the same advantages and disadvantages. If your opponent used the map better than you, you deserve to lose.

You could say the same about me starting on a size 4 earth biome vs your starting on a size 1 moon biome. Thats like saying "But whales live in the Ocean!" yes... yes they do. So what? 2 players starting on different planets isn't balanced unless every planet is exactly the same. Why would you even make / join a lobby that had that setup if your playing competitively?

If you play on a map with a metal planet... Yup. You know they come with a planet destroying lasor too right? It's like that weather you like it or not. No one is forcing you to include a metal planet in your maps if you don't like things like that in your maps...

I searched for "metal maps" in all forums and thread titles only

Neutrino backs what tatsujb is saying. we need strategies, not who has the most effective build order to get to the metal planet in the system.

honest question: Is there an upper bound to the number of metal spots you can add to a planet?

If so, I would guess that's temporary; it's only fairly recently that they got the metal spawns to [almost] never generate un-placeable metal spots. Once they fully bake that and have the sliders all working as intended, etc... it may be that anyone can create a metal planet with absurd numbers of metal spawns. So many that it's effectively "build anywhere for metal". I'd play those occasionally for the nostalgia factor, I think, but a release-game feature such that MEX can defacto always be placed anywhere on any metal planet is very unlikely, IMO.

Maybe that's why he's leaving the balancing to Scathis (ie the professional) now. We all know what balance has been like before Neutrino got him involved...

You should do a search before posting. This has been talked about a lot.

They will not be like that in TA and that's a good thing.

Since we have multiple planets to play on, if metal spots can be placed anywhere on a metal planet, then PA will be "first person to the metal planet wins."

There is a HUGE difference between starting on, (or indeed first reaching) a larger planet with a greater total number of metal points but equally spread apart and starting on or reaching a planet where you can literally build blocks of hundreds of mex in a fairly small space.

A player holding a larger planet than you will out-Eco you eventually, true, but it takes time and expansion. A player on a metal planet as you're suggesting could have thousands of metal per tick in minutes.

Expansion is it's own reward. People on the forums universally agree turtles are at an inherent disadvantage already. 1 Nuck would kill all your metal in that case, and 1 KEW kills the whole planet no matter what it is anyway, so if you put all your eggs in 1 basket...

Assuming you let the enemy build up a Nuck when you have over a hundred Extractors AND/OR just build an anti-nuck to project your very densely placed Extractors.

Mike

Hmmm, but wouldn't that be a later game problem, and given the RIDICULOUS metal advantage that the player would have, they could quite easily out spam you with nukes, anti nukes, whatever...
I think it's more practical to have metal spots, even if it slightly counter intuitive, as opposed to metal everywhere.