Naval Idea, The Way "Land" Diversifies Unit Use.

Land is pretty much army blobs. However, you do see a few different units used, whereas naval currently has 3. Naval functions atm, but this is an idea about how to see those other units.

The idea is that Naval currently has a factory, and Land has two. So, you see where I am going with this?

...Why not make two separate naval factories?

Diversify them just like land factories are/will be. Keep the current large ships as the "armor" factory, and make a list of small support ships like the current scout and fabber.

I don't want it to literally be land cloned onto water, as a naval theme lets call it "Shipyard and Boatyard" or ship and boat factory or whatever. The ships can be military looking and double-pointed, while the boats have flat backs and some can possibly look personal such as dingys and rafts. The strategic icons can reflect that in their shape possibly.

The cannon ship and cannon-air ship can be the Shipyard along with a fabber that is balanced between the current naval fabber and the land vehicle's, while the Boatyard can be small boats perhaps with torpedos and it's anti air can just be dedicated anti-air only and it's fabbers can be bot-efficiency. The t2 can still include the battleship and missile carrier on the Shipyard, and the t2 Boatyard can have longrange single shot missiles with little less range than missile carrier and the added roles the devs are adding to land such as repair boats and flak boats or something.

Then land and naval battles can be about 2 layers of units, while land will still be tank formations while naval is about ship bombardment. The difference is, bots can quickly move to get ahold of empty land and defend it, while tanks actually fight the land enemy's squat upon (dox can sort of hold off tanks, and tanks can get into turret lines, but dox can't just walk into bases). Naval needs these roles.

One of the biggest points, is also that naval-starting matches with naval-only is slower to build up because the economy pretty much bombs no matter what trying to produce with those units. Having smaller variants and a more efficient small-time fabber like the bot factory has definitely gives you something to work with when starting off commander-to-navy or whole-water-worlds.

Side Notes: An amphibious unit would be neat, like a dox that costs little more and is as slow as an ant but can be land and water. That way water can lead to land invasion, just on a uneconomical scale compared to pelting from the shore. Give that blueprint to the boatyard and bot factory, and it can be used for invading from either one to either one. Really invading isn't even the word for it... it is more like enforcing initial territory. Because if ships pelt the shore clean one could build a land bot factory on shore, but the enemy might have pelters just close enough to reach shore without reaching water or the naval reaching it, but if there were a unit that was a little more flexible about how far it can reach on land but wasn't strong enough to be a single powerful game-changer, it could assist at least getting a land factory up on a shore.

Side Notes: Also, transports and other roles, considered here as well, divided amongst the two factories as seen fit. Also, submarines, aren't a vital balance consideration with this idea, so they can be divided amongst the factories or become their own factories, but this idea functions with them in any different number of ways as well as independent of them.

I say yes.

I'd say lets make the 2 factories Shipyard and sub yard. Make the 2nd one a completely underwater structure that creates subs and other units that travel exclusively underwater or on the sea floor.

Why not zeppelin factories and traditional air factories while we're at it?

what i'd really like to see is the carrier. and why not an even bigger naval unit than the leviathan, something with which to up the stakes and for your opponent to focus on navy.

Idk, air is already not like the other units in the game, they go straight there and back and get one shot to do damage and then their weapons are dry. They are like single attacks, ordered once, instead of an actual battle. That is what makes them unique.

On that note, they are total anyway, both land and sea have to interact with air, so air is like the option you can use to support either. That being said, naval has "naval and air", but land has "bot vehicle and air" so it still argues the point.

As far as carriers, really air is more involved with naval than land, so a carrier with "drones" would be a neat tie to that, and the fact naval has neat anti-air options would encourage that kind of play, and it even diversifies it from land. However, to diversify it from air, perhaps the drones should be necessary to return back and forth from ship to "reload" bombs between drops? Just make it send a drone out every 2 seconds and the drones have a range so you really don't have too many out at once and yet when they return there is no special script to reload because they just disappear and new ones appear. Could even make them suicidal drones. The real mechanic is there, as long as these flying things can be shot down.

I wouldn't mind the missile carrier be a drone carrier. At least anti air can save battleships from being totaled in a single hit by a cheaper unit then, lol.

Shipyard and boatyard? Aren't those already exist as basic and advanced naval factories?

Through, I would like fo see fabrication ship instead of current advanced fabrication boat.

What are the 3 units?

Because I have had fleets of bluebottles get eaten by T1 bombers when my fighter coverage lapsed, so Narwhales are somewhat essential for me now.

And the scout unit gives a significant boost to the range of Leviathans?

I use more of the unit roster on the odd time I build Naval than I do when I build land.

You jest, but I actually think a helicopter/fixed wing distinction would be a good idea.

And a boat/ship distinction where boats are small, speedy craft used for scouting, harassment, and map control, while large ships form cohesive, consolidated fleets around cruisers, battleships, and aircraft carriers would definitely work. All-naval gameplay would be made much more interesting and would create the possibility of combined arms on the ocean using boats, ships, and aircraft.

No, those are most definitely both ships. Also, I am not sure if you read the original post, but the role diversification is the important part. Having multiple small things with individual guns and fair multidirectional movement and speed, is different than having a sluggish armored mutli-gun shell-firing unit in slightly lesser numbers.

I will amend my original post even. One of the biggest points, is also that naval-starting matches with naval-only is slower to build up because the economy pretty much bombs no matter what trying to produce with those units. Having smaller variants and a more efficient small-time fabber like the bot factory has definitely gives you something to work with when starting off commander-to-navy or whole-water-worlds.

AND I think I will quote ledarsi in my OP, bots and theoretically boats are for first securing territory control and defence and raiding, while ships are for attacking enemy territories and direct combat roles while boats support the back.

Part of me says "yeah thats pretty cool more factories more units"..

But honestly... 4 naval factories[1 boat, 1 adv boat, 1 armor, 1 adv armor] sitting in the ocean producing 4 different sets of units.... is really magnifiying the clutter that naval units already do a good job at doing.

Naval units are HUGE compared to their land counterparts along with their factories. I guess since people have played primarily land battles, adv land factories feel small and normal compared to the navies.

Maybe it wouldn't be to terrible of an idea considering Naval was a stretch goal of the kick starter and naval warfare could use more flair and build diversity compared to land.

Arn't hover units on the docket?

I imagine they would fit the 'boat' role admirably.

Fusing boats and hovers is an interesting idea. I think their size would be comparable. The major difference would be that hovers would be land-capable as well.

i just skimmed over, and got the idea of "three" factories, namely ships, subs and seaplanes (you see what i did there ?)

ships like normal, anything from scout-speed boat to a heavy battleship which can shoot across multiple lengts of a screen.
subs like standard combat subs to hunter subs to submersed small escort carriers... jeah i like that last idea

and seaplanes, specialised anti ship torpedo/missile bombers and standard issue AA fighters ...


just my few cents ... i really liked seaplanes in TA and wanted them in supcom ...

Can we combine units together to make super unis. So for example if I want the power of a Leviathan and the speed of the firefly I can fuse them together for extra metal and energy and create the leviathanfly. So we could also eliminate the need for multiple factories by just having units combine in order to create more powerful units to adapt to the changes in the battlefield.

Idk, seaplanes was an idea until Uber made it possible for bomber's bombs to function as both. Combining units, isn't that a Battlefield 2155 idea or something, I never played it but heard a lot about it.

This is just a role thing, because right now if someone goes ant's they usually go levelers, and if someone goes bots they harass with dox but mainly make small forward defence bases, and if someone actually does use a good amount of both (seen more in 2v2+ because of multiple player's strategies combining) you see forward bases WITH ants or levelers with dox and fab-healers on the levelers (just did that last game myself actually, I was the bot player while 1 did vehicles and 1 did air and vehicles eventually transitioned orbital so I took over both)

I have re-read your first post just to be sure and no, I still don't see why this can't be basic and advanced factories. This would require some rebalancing and even remodelling, but after that your concept fits into this dichotomy pretty well. Just make small stuff even smaller.

Ships are big and powerful and therefore expensive. And you can't have smaller variants, because that will essentially make them boats. That means you can't start with ships. And if you can't start with them - they are already effectively T2.

Why post when you have nothing constructive to add?

You could honestly do both, just like right now (and in a mod I plan) you could have a single land factory with both sets of blueprints and a single adv. land factory with the same.

And you could also separate the factories, for the same reason land does it. And both would work, either having one or two.

The thing is, you can start with ships, just like you can start with vehicles. Then again, who starts with a vehicle factory for the sole purpose of building vehicle fabbers to send to 5 distant metal points to spark economy? That, perhaps, is a design issue entirely, vehicle fabbers should probably be fairly agile to make up for their inefficiency, or be able to take quite a few shots and survive. Either way, people start with vehicle, but they usually grow slower economy in favor of hitting the enemy asap and constantly attacking every minute after the first minute.

That is a valid point if you wish though: Why do ships have to be so expensive to start with? Why couldn't they be more comparable to slightly-above-ant prices? And why do naval fabbers need to be so inefficient? Why do you HAVE to go negative to get your first mexs/pps going?

Oh boy you got me. <3