Read Op 1st Addition Of Supplemental Assistive AI's For HumanvComp Matches and/or Human v Human?

Discussion in 'Planetary Annihilation General Discussion' started by siefer101, January 6, 2014.

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Addition Of Supplemental Assistive AI's For Human v Comp Matches... Human v Human

  1. This would be a worth while Addition (as detailed in the OP) for both H v H and H v C matches

    58.8%
  2. This would be a worth while Addition (as detailed in the OP) for H v H matches

    5.9%
  3. This would be a worth while Addition (as detailed in the OP) for H v C matches

    20.6%
  4. This would not be a worth while Addition (as detailed in the OP) for H v H matches

    8.8%
  5. This would not be a worth while Addition (as detailed in the OP) for H v C matches

    8.8%
  6. This would not be a worth while Addition (as detailed in the OP) for both H v H and H v C matches

    32.4%
  7. This Addition has merit if the following were added or removed from the OP (post comment)

    5.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. stormingkiwi

    stormingkiwi Post Master General

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    Ai does need assistance.

    At the moment it only seems to evaluate a single threat, and it responds to that threat.

    I have successfully defended against AI attacks by simply sneaking smaller groups of units into the enemies base. All of a sudden the AI decides that it needs to withdraw all its troops to defend its base, even if they'll never get there in time. And if you watch the AI fight against a few other AI, it will just randomly yo-yo its troops between two targets it never ends up actually attacking.
  2. siefer101

    siefer101 Active Member

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    you're misinterpreting what type of assistance I mean the assistantAnce that I am talking about is in reference to any additional processing capabilities in the middle of the Battle.. the assistantance you are referring to the completion of the AI neural network
  3. siefer101

    siefer101 Active Member

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    and yes I do agree that the AI needs to be completed.. this happens to be one of those things that people begin to agree with once the AI starts to become an actual threat.. when conversations start to shift from how fast can you be the AI to you can you beat the AI... that is when I know that we're getting closer to a finished product.
  4. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    Mod territory perhaps, but Neutrino has been pretty clear in the past when it comes to handing control off to an AI. It's almost certainly a 'No'.

    Also your poll is so biased it hurts.
    shootall likes this.
  5. stormingkiwi

    stormingkiwi Post Master General

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    Additional processing capabilities are completion of the AI neural network. In this case, recognising that it is multitasking, that those forces are already committed and cannot be used elsewhere.

    You're getting muddled up with how the AI works.

    Most AI's run an overall strategic Agent, and then they work down in a chain of command, with sub-agents to manage different tasks.

    It has nothing to do with the neural network, which is Sorian speak for the AI being emergent, as opposed to being predictable due to hardcoding

    I do think that some processes could be handed off to a cooperative AI. But personally, after playing with cooperative AI in games, its never quite good enough to replace the player
  6. siefer101

    siefer101 Active Member

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    okay I think I understand what you're saying now and as far as hAnding over to play to the Ai I do not by any means mean for this to be a replacement for actually playing the game
    stormingkiwi likes this.
  7. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    Except that every aspect of play is ' actually playing the game ', including the parts you don't have time to control.
    beer4blood likes this.
  8. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    What advantages would come from this? So basically you want to have a 2v2 against the ai, with a lesser ai commander on your team which basically builds until you tell what to do? Which inturn will give you more time to attack and all that while the ai builds up your economy?

    If that's the case I find it pretty pointless. Hard enough playing random 2v2s with humans messing stuff up, never mind an AI.
    beer4blood likes this.
  9. siefer101

    siefer101 Active Member

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    understand I know I have Bias as I am in full support of this idea however if there's any additional Bias that I'm not aware of I would have you enlighten me on their sources. now I think I put a fair number of poll choices in there along with a letting you select multiple options In an attempt to remove as much Bias as possible. But nobody... is perfect.
    the burden falls upon the individual reading this topiC, Or anything for that matter, to Identify and interpret any and all sources of bias. In the end come to your conclusion of the poll that is all i can ask.
  10. siefer101

    siefer101 Active Member

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    the whole point of this Is it introduce system which in my opinion is best suited for single player play against the AI in galactic war environment in An attempt to mitigate the advantage the AI has.... its being able to instantaneously procesS and execute a comparably unlimited number of actions across the simulation instantaneously without having to go through a user interface
  11. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    Your poll should (at least) have an option to disagree with it entirely.

    The AI has no advantage over a player save that of execution. An computer game AI is incapable of thought, reason, strategic consideration, innovation, experimentation and most importantly the ability to learn from its mistakes.

    You have so many advantages over the AI it's rather ridiculous that anyone could consider it a fair fight... even less so a fight that favours the AI.
  12. siefer101

    siefer101 Active Member

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    It does it's the second choice from the bottom
  13. peewee1000

    peewee1000 Member

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    Let's not allow shift queueing then. Players should try to find time to multitask as many processes as possible and enjoy themselves!
  14. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    reductio ad absurdum... sigh.
  15. siefer101

    siefer101 Active Member

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    I provided information supporting my proposition as i am expected to, I put a poll slot which allowed voters to express their dislike of the proposition as well. I am not responsible for providing the reasons as to why this is a negative addition to the game... That is your job ;)
  16. siefer101

    siefer101 Active Member

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    Not ceding that this is a negative addition to the game.....
  17. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    I already did my job. It's against Neutrino's vision for the game as evidenced here.
    Apologies for not seeing the poll correctly and missing the one that allowed me to disagree with the entire premise. The poll is very overworded and a slog to actually glean meaning from without multiple re-reads.

    Oh, and I still think your poll is incredibly biased as it only provided a single dissenting option, when compared to six options that validate it in some form or another.
    peewee1000 likes this.
  18. peewee1000

    peewee1000 Member

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    Thanks for the link! Seems like lot of emphasis is being put on economy in/out management, and it might be hard to mix AI assisted construction in with that.
  19. siefer101

    siefer101 Active Member

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    That is in reference to the Economy... My topic is in reference a system the will counter balance the distinct AI advantage present as the expansion of the play field occurs. Neutrino references the the economy and how nothing should be added that nullifies the players requirement to pay attention to his ECo... now the argument can be made that Assistive AI I'm proposing is such a tool... But hell an AI as i am envisioning should have the ability to run it to the ground if not managed as well.

    Your citation of neutrino disliking automation is out of context with my proposition
  20. siefer101

    siefer101 Active Member

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    this statement shows me that you didn't take time to read the poll... you saw it was wordy (i agree) and you ignored it

    the poll is completely symmetric
    1 completely approving the prop
    1 completely against the prop
    1 supporting the use of the supplemental AI in human v human interactions
    1 supporting the use of the supplemental AI in human v computer interactions
    1 disapproving the use of the supplemental AI in human v human interactions
    1 disapproving the use of the supplemental AI in human v computer interactions
    final option allows you to add or subtract from the OP

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