Getting new PC

Let's say fair, ATI/AMD graphics cards had crappy drivers all time since I remember it back in 2004 when I had ATI Radeon 9600 PRO. Then they had crappy drivers when I got 2x ATI HD4850 in CrossFire. When I only get 2x AMD HD6950 in CrossFireX it's also work like a crap in many games and OpenGL performance way lower than DX11 which Nvidia have nearly parity. And it's all was on Windows while on Linux everything is much worse.

What funny that ATI/AMD fanboys and marketing always say that issues will be fixed and soon™ everything will be great, but 10 years pass and their drivers still bad.

...

Will some brand new API magically improve their drivers? I will say NO.
Also their Mantle created to solve issues that mainly related to DirectX bottlenecks, it's confirmed by AMD OpenGL guy that same functionality will be exposed as OpenGL extension.

PS: I still using AMD GPUs because there is number of use-cases where they're perform better while cost way cheaper Nvidia, but choosing AMD graphics card for OpenGL game it's madness.

I've just come from watching your 2v8 xD
I have been looking to see if I can get bits of the system cheaper elsewhere, only managed £0.64 saving by mixing RAM bands (but ironically, not supplier). This is also why I only have one HDD and 8Gb of RAM - I know I can get them for less in a year or two when I might need them.

If anyone knows a good route to self build I'll look into it. I'd be saving by using the old tower case in the corner, if it weren't over 10 years old and thus have the wrong ports and slots, let alone component sizes.

See, this is why I came here. I could go through half a dozen reviews or two dozen google links and not pick up details like that.

**Englishman
Since I'm Scottish.

You can search for a few guides I guess but it really is simple slot in stuff. I built my first computer on my own without any help and it's a little scary but really really simple. Just make sure your graphics card and motherboard will fit in the case (if it isn't a big one).

dude seriously don't talk about what you don't know It's not because I behave like a capitalist when I'm choosing GPUs that I don't know anything about computers.

I've never owned a console. My dad's an analyst programmer who made my first contact with computers fell like symbiosis by never letting me doubt that they were too complex for me. he came home one day with two broken cases from work and made me take parts out of the two broken ones to make a working one.

I was eight. that was my first PC.

I've built for myself and repaired for others countless cases and laptops since then.

I'd say I'm the best guy to go to in my neighborhood for advice on how to save bucks on getting a PC.

I advised this guy to get an Nvidia because I was being honest. PA runs better and gets better results on Nvidia. That's just the case. The bugtracker is testimony to that.

I meant the brit because he refers to himself as Cynical Brit. But yes Englishmen

for someone who gives lotd adivice on hardware you seem to know very little about i

Why build a computer for one game plus I totally disagree with you if you had that many problems. A bad workman blames his tools.

If you post such statements then you possible can explain where I'm wrong and why?

I'm not graphics programmer or so, but I used lot of different GPUs on different OSes in last 15 years and I'm just share my own experience. Currently for me all Mantle-related activity looks like marketing bullshit which I regularly see, but usually it's come from Nvidia.

Relax man your so uptight.

Subjected to change. Remember how "great" it performed on some NVidia for a few Builds?
As long as theres heavy development and optimization I wouldnt dare to say that it will be bad on that vendor and gold on another.

AMD/NV both suck, sometimes one more than the other but overall its a pretty close match.

Stating "you need manufacturer X" without any technical statements backing them up is pretty much useless.

On Topic:
How about getting a used rig?
An i7 2600k, possibly watercooled, at least 8 GB RAM, a fast HDD and something like a 6970 2GB will trump all 3 in your list and cost less.
About 400-500 bucks in a good case.
Even an average 2600 makes 4,0, if your lucky and get a very good one 4,8-5 is not out of reach.

I'm fine, probably my crappy English skill mislead you.

This forum have lot of people who know much more on certain topics and if you can explain what advantages this API will give compared to GL extension than I'll appreciate it. Currently I'm just see state of AMD drivers hereand now and give advice to buy Nvidia because of it.

I'm usually test my GPUs with Unigine Benchmarks. It's really well test with dual multiple renderers include OpenGL 4 and Direct3D 11.

I'm done last testing in August with Unigine Heaven and on Nvidia GTX660 there was is performance parity between D3D and OGL with some little difference like +/- 1-3FPS. On my AMD HD6950 performance of OpenGL was lower for something like ~12FPS.

Those benchmarks are available and you can do your own testing:
http://unigine.com/products/heaven/download/
http://unigine.com/products/valley/download/

PS: In everything else I agree with you, there no much difference between AMD and Nvidia GPUs and none of them have any "Magic" which help un-optimized game perform better.

I know Unigine, I run it regulary on my rigs.
The variation in OGL performance between different applications - not limited to games - is quite high. Too high to make me apply benchmark results from one application to another.

Havent run it on current AMD beta driver yet, Ill do so and post some results.

Thanks, this will be interesting to see results from other video cards.

Don't bother too much about timevans999, in another thread that user was trying to shame me for things we hadn't even talked about. Whoever it is posting is either drunk, trolling or clueless.

To OP and back on topic: As for building and buying a pc from parts, it's no big deal. I just did it as a first timer. If you wonder anything just look around, there are plenty of guides and forums where people explain everything.

My build thread, maybe you find something useful https://forums.uberent.com/threads/pc-build-help.53853/

So, Unigine benchmark DX 11 and OGL. Everytime on Ultra, no AA, FullHD.

[Bench] [API] [Avg] [Min] [Max]
Heaven DX11 38,8 7,8 68,9
Heaven OGL 27,5 7,7 55,8
Valley DX11 43,2 19,1 72,3
Valley OGL 26,1 13,5 44,8

So, in Heaven OpenGL is about 72% as performant and in Valley only 60%.
Mind you thats very similiar benchmarks and they deviate quite a bit from each other.

A quick google reasearch showed some of the real differences with some applications.
Example: In Cinebench 11.5, the 6970 trumps a 580 by 45%.
In Heaven, the same 580 wins by a shocking 73%.
They published Heaven for the 6970 with 28fps avg. in OpenGL which is damn close to what I got. That benchmarks are from 2010, so there basically has been NO progress with Heaven up to the current driver - Beta 13.11.

Thats just from the first hit on google, havent verified that myself as I currently have nothing from NV that compares. Newest cards I still have are two 295GTX, bit old that stuff .

Would be nice if someone with a 5/6/780 could run Heaven or Valley in DX11 and OGL.
I can only offer 6990, 6970, 5970 and GTX295s.

Thank you for testing.

Is it results of HD6970?

Actually Unigine Heaven 4.0 and Valley released in 2013. Unigine update benchmark together with their engine so they not stuck with 2010 features only, but also include new things

Understand you incorrectly first time.

Yes those results are from my 6970 with 2GB VRAM.

Should have put it more clearly.
I of course tested with current version of Unigine and latest 13.11 beta drivers.
The review I found for comparing unigine to Cinebench was done in 2010 and thus with very old drivers (and Unigine),I complained about 3 years old drivers not improving by a noticeable margin. I had hoped for a slight increase in performance. Bad wording on my part.

And of course I forgot that Unigine Heaven back than was a much older version than 4.0 thats available now.

Is that just relating to this game. And you do realise that if you haven't got the hardware you couldn't possibly know the results to the tests. What I mean buy that is if you get a modern driver for a 6950 that is not as useful as getting a modern driver for the 290x. I did some tests and found that an r9290 was faster than 660 ti sli in battlefield4.

With regards to api I thought mavor said it could be adopted for this game. I didn't say it would give advantages I just said I thought it might get used.
With regards to computer builds i'm sorry about my aggressive attitude. I will learn to keep my opinions to myself, I just like to build in a different way with a different mandate than all of the builds I've seen talked about here. Sxx I think your advice is good its just no good for an overclocking modders veteran.

While the topic creator isn't anyone even close to that
Sxx if you could provide me with instructions about how to perform those tests, I'll be glad to post results tommorow from my 670GTX.

And also to the topic creator Mr. scifiz I was in the same very spot as you are right now. I don't know precisly where, but somewhere I found great website, which is made for all sort of people, giving only good advices, all of them put together in a very organised manner. Nice and easy to understand. Website can be accessed here : http://www.logicalincrements.com/
It has modern, Web 2.0 look. It shows so called "best in slot" options for variaty of world markets, with links to best deals. It also has very nice "encylopedia" of parts - which can help You get answers for any question you might have.

I can call myself an IT guy. I've done it past 8 years. I work daily with problems. Maybe I'm not quite familiar with highest possible hardware right now, but I have more - so to say general look onto that matter. And don't blame me for having my own opinion, but I would go with intel i3 (when being in your shoes) and nvidia gpu. Possibly 650Ti, motherboard get any that will suit your needs in terms of I/O slots. 450W PSU will be ok for You. Buy more cheaper RAM , its better to have cheap 8GB than fast 4GB. As for the HDD goes - It's hard to maintain good PC condition having <60GB SSD. In such case I would go with Hybrid HDD.

Do you have R290 now? It's will be interesting if you can do same D3D11 vs OGL test.

There is no surprise in 6970 results because I have mostly same GPU.

Devs can even implement D3D11 renderer if they want, but here and now this game using OpenGL.

It's totally fine, before I'm used to participate in many hardware related holy wars so I understand it.

I don't think there is reason to argue about what GPU manufacturer is better because it's don't change you/mine opinion anyway. Unfortunately my personal experience with AMD+OpenGL is really poor and got I'm got access to quite lot of AMD graphics cards because year ago I got nice bitcoin mining rig. Though for many OpenCL-related use-cases (not only bitcoin mining) they left Nvidia without any chance.