Fog of war

This question of mine got buried in another thread about maps. Also tried search, didn't find anything, so here goes:

I've been wondering about the fog of war in PA.. currently the player sees all of the map by default, unlike most other RTS games where it is blacked out completely if you haven't scouted. Ironically, having complete black-out makes more sense in a game with procedural maps like PA. Not knowing what the battlefield looks like makes potentially a HUGE difference when it comes to strategic decision-making. It would make early scouting of attack routes, defensive spots and optimal places for expansion so much more meaningful and important, if you didn't have that universal vision of terrain features by default.

Not sure how "100% blind" fog of war would work visually in PA, but I'm sure it is possible. Maybe have clouds or something to that effect like in Civ V, with mountains sticking out for a cool visual effect. Choosing spawn points could also be problematic.. maybe one could see where the metal spots are, but not the terrain itself, to make it more interesting. (For example, it might turn out that that huge cluster of metal spots you see on the planet might be located in the middle of a sea...)

Thoughts? Edit: The question being: is the current fog of war subject to change?

what RTS are you talking about...?
Is very important to have all the Planet clear... or you would spawn o the worst posintion(that have 6 mex on the Spawn point, but no Expansion mexes), when you could Spawn on the best Point(5 mex but A LOT OF EXPANSION)...for example

P.S. Civ is a 4X not a RTS

he means as an option.

Interesting. Taken to the extreme, I can imagine a game mode where you land in your Egg on a celestial body with little more than the curvature you detect, and light from the system's star to give you faint clues about other celestial bodies nearby. You need to scout your planet (as you've suggested) as well as scout the other bodies nearby. Not sure I like it as a standard game mode, but I'm willing to let parts of this grow on me. Nice suggestion.

Continuing on with some more first thoughts... I'm not sure I like the mod that tells folks at a glance from the first seconds of the game, just how many MEX are available on every planet/moon/etc. It makes some sense even in a standard game mode for that information to also be incomplete; fogged somehow. I can imagine gameplay relevance then to the Deep Space Radar being built prior to sending a first Astraeus out, with the (relatively) minor risk being that it gets sent to a sub-optimal first destination otherwise.

Fog of War usually refers to that which is out of Line of Sight while you can still see the terrain there.
Shroud or Darkness usually refers to what you describe.

The biggest problem with this idea and choosing the initial starting position is that you can't make a strategic decision because you don't have any information about the terrain.

Age of Empires had that setting. You could have full vision or no vision.

I think having completely blacked out planets would be a lot of fun. It'd mean no spawn choices, but I'm fine with that for a different play style.

It's been talked about, and even if it isn't in an official release, it'll be in a mod and/or added at a later date.

Would certainly make scouting even more important, that's for sure.

Ta has an unmapped mode which is never used in online play basically because it adds nothing to the game. Would you not think that scouting the good spots and the enemies location will bring too much of a luck factor for the game. Procedurally generated maps with random spawns is hard enough without bringing unmapped mode to pa.


So tell us anyhows. Would you be aware of other planets? Or will you have to build an invasion party, search the universe for half an hour trying to find something that possibly isnt there?

Basically I don't think this type of mode will add anything to a game other than having to scout the entire map before you can make any strategic decisions.

Yes, this.

Agreed. That is why I thought that you could see the metal spot locations like you can now, and maybe large terrain features like mountains and oceans, so that you have at least some factors to base that first spawn point decision on.

Or like others said, with shroud on, one can't choose spawn location. (Which is kinda boring but hey can't have it all.)

In anycase if we trust Uber's current and upcoming tweaks the spawn shoould be 100% balanced by then.

Yeah this would help, but you still are unsure if there is a huge mountain range or crack between yourself and the metal or if they are on land or sea. Or if your commander starts in a crater or surrounded with no escape by mountains.

Arguably it adds nothing to the game in TA, because the maps are predefined and everybody knows them by heart anyway.

You would see the planets just like you do now and how many metal spots they have etc. You just don't see the terrain features. Although the moment you send in an orbital radar it would be revealed.

I agree with that final point.. but that is kind of the point, having to work for strategic knowledge. You have to scout currently too to see what your enemy is doing, which does make a big impact on your strategy.

Ok so you see the planets, you send your adv bot fabbers across the galaxy and then the map is a water map .

It would add an element of luck to the game. But another way of looking at it is just unpredictability.. let's say you choose to spawn next to a big cluster of metal, but later find out there is perhaps a crack in the ground between you and them. It is not the end of the world.. it would just mean that you have to first send in air fabbers, for example. In any case it would probably make air units more important, just for that extra maneuverability and scouting.

The whole conversation ties in to the balance and fairness question, or luck factor, if you want to call it that.. I can see how more competitive players would find this suggestion completely anathema (at first , especially since they are used to symmetry etc in most other games.

The way that I see this game is that your commander is hot dropping himself onto the planets' surface. He would have already orbited the planet and seen the full layout anyway. He finds a few good drop points and chooses the best one of those to land.

This is why I believe that having a blacked out map would not be useful or relevant for PA.

Lol.. too bad, your mistake, should've sent in a scouting radar first!

In my fiction, I imagine the commander on board his tiny scout ship, in orbit.. his metal detector has revealed only the locations of the precious metal spots, and he has to descend down to the planet for further investigation.

I believe it should be added as an optional setting. Possibly just having knowledge of the objects in the solar system, but their surfaces not explored. OR the terrain could be explored, minus the metal spots.

Either way, I believe that it would be an interesting game mode to try, and it would add a bit of fun to exploration, mainly if we get terrain features that radically impact gameplay, such as height differences, strategic choke points and whatnot.

LOL now we can have a rediculous poll talking about which of our fiction is better.

But yeah as a toggle feature it could be interesting to be completely blind every now and then.

I totally forgot about blacked out maps. This would be a fun option. Reminds me of that first time I had ever played an RTS (warcraft II), that tutorial mission where it tells you how to move through the black space to discover land.
This would be mostly a game starting mechanic, I feel that once satelites are up we would know what the map looks like by then.
Definately a good option, but I wouldnt consider it a game default.

This is true, with the current planets being so uniform and flat, it really wouldn't be that interesting. For this to really work, we would need more diverse, gameplay-affecting terrain features.